It Only Took Two Years…
April 12, 2008 | Television | Haruhi
One thing I asked myself upon finishing Clannad was, “Of all the recent anime adaptations of Key visual novels, which had the most likable male lead?” After some thought, I settled on Okazaki Tomoya, but it was while evaluating Aizawa Yuuichi’s character that I tripped on something I had never tripped on before: the primary reason why I’m not a big fan of the Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi.
When the Kanon remake first aired, there was a lot of talk of how Yuuichi was essentially a clone of Haruhi’s Kyon, given their similarly sarcastic nature and the fact both characters were voiced by Sugita Tomokazu. I saw the similarity as well, but the two characters still struck me as fundamentally different. But why? It’s funny that I didn’t realize it until now, but the reason is quite simple. Yuuichi is likable. Kyon, on the other hand, is not.
Now, I’m sure there are plenty of Haruhi fans out there who will disagree with me, but my impression of Kyon was indeed negative. And since the show was structured in such a way as to emphasize his negative qualities, what with his neverending sarcastic narration and contemptuous observations on the events occurring around him, he grew more and more insufferable with each episode. I’m reminded of a conversation I had with Momotato in which he commented that he would have enjoyed the show more himself had it not been for Kyon’s internal monologue. I think I now understand what he was getting at.
Of course, complicating matters further is the fact that Haruhi is a somewhat unpleasant character herself. Perhaps that’s why Hirano Aya’s voice grates on me so much nowadays? That’s another topic all together, I guess.
Anyway, just a thought. I suppose it might be worth rewatching the show some time soon, just to make sure I’m not being unfair in my assessment.
Kyon also has a tendency to internalize everything and just complain while Yuuichi is more outgoing and speaks his mind constantly. I always hated the comparison as well. Just my $.02
But Mikuru makes it all better~~
Haruhi is an annoying women but I find her character to be actually interesting. Kyon is relatable and I like him well enough. Maybe you’re just too old for Haruhi :V
Mikuru was definitely my favorite character.
I don’t necessarily want to sell Kyon and Haruhi short. They’re both interesting characters, and they both had their moments. Haruhi has grown on me with time, in fact. But Kyon? I dunno. Your note about him being “relatable” is an interesting point, because I was thinking that I don’t relate to him the same way I suspect a lot of the show’s fans do. I didn’t mention that in my post, however, as I was worried it might be mistakenly perceived as an insult toward the show’s fans. That’s not my intent, though.
Yeah, ‘relatability’ (or whatever word should be used) is an important point: Kyon felt exactly like my memories of being that age, and of my friends at that age. And he managed to be a good Everyman filter and a recognisable individual at the same time . So while I didn’t necessarily like him, I liked how his character was executed and the effects he had on the show; I found him convincingly unpleasant.
(Un)Fortunately, I haven’t seen Clannad, so I can’t express an opinion on Tomoya. I would note that likeability can be rather uninteresting, but then interest is hardly the only - or the main - thing fans seek in anime.
The main difference between Kyon and Yuuichi is that Yuuichi helps people while Kyon is uhh… Kyon….
Guess I’m lucky enough to have liked both Kyon and Yuuichi. I have noticed that Kyoto’s male main characters are far more entertaining than 99% of what’s offered in anime. I’ve gotten really sick of the milquetoasts protagonists that are seemingly the rule, not the exception. I honestly have no idea what’s supposed to be appealing about the whiny, sexually stunted, and most of all boring leads that keep coming out. Kyoto shows (except for Lucky Star, which probably explains my unenthusiastic reception of it) are a welcome break from this sort of drudgery. Tomoya, Kyon, Sosuke, and Yuuichi were all occasionally idiotic or just jerks, but at least they weren’t boring.
I liked Kyon, though I really didn’t care much for Yuuichi. I think Kyon was *supposed* to be relatable but I can understand why he wouldn’t be to some people. Like the universe, that all revolves around Haruhi, or at least your opinion of her. If you’re annoyed by her (understandable too), you can at least sympathize with Kyon if not fully relate. Regardless, for all his complaining, Kyon is basically shouldering the burden of Reality itself, so I guess he has a right to a little sarcasm.
As far as the Key/Kyoto visual novel protagonists, I don’t think there’s much contest for Okazaki. i didn’t like him any more than Yuuchi at first (seemed like one of those milquetoasts YHK mentions), but he grew on me.
Weirdly enough, I like Kyon for the same reasons I like Tomoya of Clannad. He’s a reliable everyman. He’s NOT perfect. Tomoya sometimes gets annoyed or flabbergasted at his Harem’s antics, even at Nagisa’s antics. Kyon often gets annoyed at Haruhi. Tomoya is sometimes disagreeable and lazy and claims not to care, but you know that he does. Same with Kyon. In the end, both are imperfect, but both are also caring people who you can (usually) trust to make more or less the right choice, kind of.
Sure, Kyon takes the snark to a whole different level, but considering that he has to deal with an amoral goddess with ADD, an ambigiously gay esper who can never talk 100% straight and may want to jump his bones, and 2 very attractive but very weird and probably off-limits girls, I think he has a right to snark.
Oddly, I find Tomoya’s personality more reminiscent to Kyon’s than Yuuchi’s, though I might be misremembering the latter somewhat since I’ve watched less of Kanon and less often. Tomoya has more of a cynical, apathetic edge to his worldview than Yuuichi did and seems more inclined to get exasperated when the surrounding cast (mainly Fuuko and Kotomi) acted like a bunch of weirdos. Yuuichi seemed more likely to be surprised and less likely to facepalm than Tomoya or Kyon. The fact that he sounds exactly like Kyon and looks somewhat similar makes their similarities stand out more, though.
The biggest difference between Kyon and either of the KeyAni leads, I think, is that he suffers from the personality semi-reset that comedy series often employ to avoid altering intercharacter dynamics too much and stay in a certain comfort zone.
For me, I found the internal monologue style to be the most interesting aspect of the show. A significant portion of those lines appear to have been lifted straight from the original novels, and I quite enjoyed his commentary. It was certainly a refreshing change from the stock statements we have come to know well when we are actually privy to a male lead’s internal thoughts such as “Huh? What was that about? Did I do something wrong?” or “What should I do?” and, of course, “I want to protect her!”
>>Jeff
I can’t say I know you personally (hell I’ve only ever properly spoken with you once) but from your blog it seems you’re a tad bit more… optimistic(?) than the average, cynical anime fan. I think we can all agree that society has become a lot more cynical over time. I think Kyon’s kind of a breath of fresh air to most anime viewers, given anime is dominated by uninteresting male leads, and Kyon provides a fairly realistic guy they can relate to. Hell, I’d drink with him (and fuck his sister hurrr.) Though, I’ll admit I did get a bit tired of him at some points (a number of his remarks aren’t all that clever) but the show more than makes up for that in other areas (Mikuru-chan~)
To be honest I wasn’t sold on Haruhi when it first aired, but after several rewatches, and I came to appreciate it as a cool SF story almost in the vein of something like… Toki Wo Kakeru Shoujo? Doesn’t really have the same feel at all, but it does involve high schoolers and SF plot devices, so.
The difference I see in the two is the difference between easing into unusual situations and being thrust/dragged suddenly into them. Note both reached out first to their respective female costar; Kyon just happened tob get yanked down the rabbit hole a whole hell of a lot harder.
It seems we have differing tastes; I liked Kyon’s sarcasm while I hated Haruhi’s… I dunno. I just didn’t like her.
Kyon was probably my favorite because of how cynical he was throughout the entire series; it may have seemed like he was too much of a sarcastic wiseass, but considering that he’s sort of a realist (in a sense), the way he constantly spouted remarks about the nature of the events happening to him was one of the things that kept Haruhi “different”, setting aside the graphics of course. He did seem to get dragged around everywhere, complained about it internally, but then ended up going along with Haruhi’s hare-brained ideas anyway. However, the fact that he was actually able to communicate with her at some level, unlike the usual “wussy male lead” thing that I’m sure we’ve all been used to by now, was indeed, refreshing. Sugita’s role as Yuuchi, in my experience, added to that. In here, we saw the sarcasm and wit of Kyon, but he is more proactive to the situations and people surrounding him, rather than being dragged along.
Also, Yuki > Kyon’s Sister > Mikuru.
“Yuuichi is likable.”
No, not really. The downfall of ANY Key adaptation + Suzumiya is the male protagonist; seriously, I never understood why they never minded their own business. What does Mai’s demon battling have anything to do with you, Yuuichi? What does the Dango-girl’s problems have anything to do with you, Tomoya? They’re just so… PATHETIC. Seriously, they don’t even have their own problems set straight, and they’re mentoring and lecturing girls.
Another thing that’s irritating is… none of the girls ever show any annoyance or uncomfortable to the male character’s persistence… and just passively accept these male characters into their lives. Seriously, girls, do you not have any pride? Then again… most of their works are harem-driven… everything has to go according to the guy’s wishes eventually… sigh
Kyon is more likable when he’s a girl. My $0.02.
“Kyon is more likable when he’s a girl. My $0.02. ”
YES.
I too have somewhat of a dislike of kyon’s character. I find that instead of being charmingly cynical (which I think is how most see him) he’s just an ass. Incapable of taking a joke or looking on the bright side of things. I liked Yuuichi far more as a character because i saw so much of myself in him, at least as far as sense of humour goes. Instead of being an ass, Yuuichi was much happier, liked a joke, and had his fun whenever he could. That said, i don;t think either of them are easily compared to Tomoya. Kyon and yuuichi are both from fairly happy, normal backgrounds. While Tomoya is from a sinlge parent family, and his dad is an drunk who has a history of physical violence. I suppose I give Tomoya a bit more leeway for any ass-like behaviour because of that. Though even without the leeway, he’s still more fun than Kyon ever managed to be.
And Haruhi? Yeah, she’s bossy and unreasonable… But hey, maybe I just dig the crazies.
I liked Kyon for the simple reason that he was living his own sweet anime-harem version of “I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream’. However since Kyon did have the constant inner monologue thing going I guess you can call TMoSH “I Have a Mouth and I’ll Make Snarky Comments”
Given the situation that Kyon was in what else could he do? Having the full attention of a spoiled, arbitrary, childish, self-indulgent god(dess) who may be in love with you is no picnic. You play the game, vent when you can and stay alive.
I think Kyon is a more realistic character than Yuuichi.
The latter doesn’t seem to have a life of his own; his only preoccupation is to solve the problems of some random girls that he happened to meet. While I didn’t dislike Yuuichi, I found his behaviour a bit unrealistic.
OTOH Kyon is the average guy in this time and age: cynical and egocentric.
Yuuichi? We’re talking about the amnesiac fellow who walked out on his almost catatonically grief-stricken cousin to chase a phantom in a snow-storm, right? Up to about that point, I thought he was likeable, too (even if he did take Nayuki for granted), but that business soured me on him.
But then, I find Haruhi infuriating, but fascinating. I guess I sympathize with Kyon. I do need to rewatch the show sometime.
What about the fellow in [i]Air[/i]? Oh, I see you haven’t answered the original question: which of the Key-adaptation male leads you like the most.
I can understand your sentiment but I am still somewhat curious as to why his personality put you off? I might understand if the show asked the audience to sympathize with Kyon but I don’t think the premise of the show asks anyone to even empathize with the guy. The show, I think, treats the viewer like an unintended camera-man who finds himself in front of five characters where hilarity and hijinks ensue.
Yes, the microphone is on Kyon and we see the world of Haruhi filtered through Kyon. Some above me comment rather matter-of-factly that the director/writer did this so that the audience can relate to the events through someone “like them.” I don’t think that is true. Kyon is a filter whose behavior is consistant within himself and his world and not designed to filter the show through a sympathetic or even empathetic point of view. This makes the most sense because the show has not made any attempt at character development. Rather, the only “character” in the show to develop is the “World of Haruhi” aka the story.
If I were to try an attempt at reading between your lines… it’s almost as if you hooked yourself into the show through the characters rather than through the story with the expectation of seeing the characters grow…
For me, Yuuchi was rather lacking in the development area, as he really did not change personality wise over the course of the story, despite numerous supernatural events. Even recalling his memories did not really change his character besides filling in a few moments of remorse. Kyon on the other hand was much more interesting as his character learned to deal with Haruhi and his world being turned upside down. There was always a struggle between his reliance on his cynical view of the world and the allure of the strange new truths Haruhi brought into his life.
However, I recognize that both characters are there to give the story the context from which I need to approach. For Kanon, Yuuichi provides the curiosity and bewilderment to heighten the emotion and mystery of the show. For Haruhi, Kyon’s cynicism provides a realist foil to all the crazy events in the story, increasing their craziness. They’re both narrators, just with different perspectives. And both are infinitely more interesting and likeable than the hundreds of other anime male leads who seem to have very narrow perspectives, if any at all.
As an aside, I really do recommend you check out the Haruhi novels. I think Kyon’s character really grows on you once you read Disappearance, which has minimal amounts of Haruhi’s character, which is what ironically allows the most development of both Kyon and Yuki.
I think Kyon is like the inner version of everyone of us: with sarcastic comments and long real monologues (about weird Harui’s behavior). Anyway, I like a lot Kyon’s personality.
“I’m reminded of a conversation I had with Momotato in which he commented that he would have enjoyed the show more himself had it not been for Kyon’s internal monologue.”
Errr.. may I remind you that this is a light novel adaption and Kyon happens to be the narrator of the light novel.
So if there were no monologues, there isn’t going to be much of an anime.
Kanon on the other than was a Bishoujo game adaption, so it doesn’t rely as much on monologues.
I agree with your thoughts about Kyon, though I still like him. Other than the VA, I always failed to see why people would compare Kyon and Yuuichi. They really aren’t that similar.
However, I do disagree with your Tomoya choice. It seems to me like you’re still in the CLANNAD honeymoon phase. Not to say it doesn’t deserve the praise you have given it recently, but I’m not quite sure if you’re looking at the series critically enough yet.
I won’t get too much into my disappointment with CLANNAD, so I’ll just state my opinion on a couple of things. I found Tomoya to be one of the biggest disappointments in regards to CLANNAD. Of all the Key male leads, he was the closest to that typical male harem leading doofus. Of course he wasn’t quite that bad, but close. He was clueless with Nagisa and did virtually nothing to win the affection of Kyou, Ryou, and Tomoyo. Yet for some unexplained reason, they are all head over heels for him. On the other hand, none of the Kanon girls seem to fall for Yuuichi until he has done enough believable things for them to fall for him. I guess that believability factor really hurts Tomoya in my eyes.
Another thing that puts Yuuichi, and Yukito, above Tomoya in my opinion, is the weight of the situations they are dealing with. [CLANNAD spoilers coming] When comparing the male leads I look at how they handle adversity. I’m oversimplifying, obviously, but if Tomoya doesn’t help/comfort Fukko then her sister doesn’t get married. If he doesn’t help Kotomi then she might not receive her teddy bear. If he doesn’t give Kyou/Ryou what they want, which he doesn’t, then they lose out on a crush. If he doesn’t help Tomoyo then perhaps she doesn’t become school president. And finally, if he doesn’t help Nagisa then she doesn’t resurrect the drama club. Again, I’m oversimplifying, but these conditions are a lot easier than the ones Yuuichi and Yukito are dealing with. If Yuuichi and Yukito don’t interact with their respective girls then those girls will not only suffer a sad fate, but they’ll suffer it while being lonely. That just magnifies their importance in comparison to Tomoya, who if wasn’t around, wouldn’t really be missed.
Of course I’m not factoring After Story into those points. AS does improve my overall rating of Tomoya and CLANNAD as a whole, but still not enough to put it past Kanon. I’m curious to hear why you prefer Tomoya to Yuuichi.
Sorry for the long post.
It may not be that fair to compare Kyon with both Yuuichi and Tomoya, considering that the former was not created by Key.
I for one found Kyon’s internal monologue as an integral part of TMSH, and added to the show’s uniqueness.
I think that without Kyon’s internal comments Haruhi as a show falls apart.
Without the comments it just becomes primarily about cute girls doing cute things viewed directly from the lens of the viewer himself, as opposed to having it through the eyes of a unique character in Kyon.
For me, the first thing that stood out about Kyon was that he would readily admit he found girls hot and sexy. So many protagonists in these sorts of shows act fairly innocent, almost not realizing that there are cute girls around them. In other words, they act like teenagers without hormones. Yuuichi and Yukito are guilty of this to an extent, and Tomoya a little less so.
But with Kyon, you know for a fact that he likes titties. And that alone gives him an edge over many main characters in these shows.
Sorry, you did reveal your choice, in the first paragraph even. My only excuse is that I tend to skip over talk of Clannad, as I haven’t watched it yet, so the name of the main character doesn’t mean much to me yet.
Sorry for not being able to respond to all comments, but I have a lot on my plate right now. That said, a response to a few comments:
@Eviltrain: Whether or not I “hooked” myself into the characters moreso than the story in the case of Haruhi, I can’t quite say. However, I typically do pay close attention to character development in the shows I watch, so you’re probably on the right track. Consistent character development was indeed a bit lacking in the show. I wonder if the episode shuffling was partially responsible?
@dKiWi: Well, that was Momotato’s comment, not mine. I didn’t have much problem with Kyon’s internal monologue being present in the show. I just have a problem with his attitude. That might be what Momotato was thinking, too, but I’d have to ask to make sure. Or, he can chime in if he’s reading.
I should also mention that the Key visual novels are just that: visual novels. Not bishoujo games. They’re actually quite similar to light novels as far as content and delivery are concerned, and they do include insight into what the protagonist is thinking over the course of the story. Yukito, Yuuichi, and Tomoya are important characters in those stories - not faceless inserts for the person playing the game.
@Oldboots: I didn’t really get all that analytical in evaluating Tomoya’s character. It was more, “If I encountered a person much like Tomoya in real life, what would be my general impression of him?” Beyond that, it was the realization that he was the most “human” of the various Key protagonists (in my eyes, at least). I also felt he was pretty selfless in his meddling, at least compared to Yuuichi and Yukito. Essentially, an admirable guy, rough edges and all.
As for the rest of your comment: it’s not a contest. Yuuichi and Yukito are perfectly likable characters. And I don’t quite see how I’m obligated to look at Clannad or Tomoya any more critically than I already have. I have a positive impression of both his character and the show in general, and I’m comfortable saying so. Also, I’m reluctant to judge the show in too much detail at this point, given that it’s not quite over. I don’t want to get overly analytical in making comparisons before the story has concluded and I’ve had time to digest it all. After all, here I am still digesting the Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi two years on.
What is funny is that I agree with you Jeff. But the difference is that I think I can like a jaded nub. Considering so many people identifies with Kyon, it makes necessity that someone like me can find them likable.
But that’s just me.
@Jeff Lawson:
If you’re using Heisei Democracy’s [visual novel-yaruge] “ph scale” (with visual novels on the far left, bishoujo games in the middle left, eroge in the middle right and yaruge on the far right), yes I do agree that Key’s stuff are indeed visual novels due to the story part, except they up the moe ante by a huge margin. Which is really what makes them so good. I guess they can be termed “Bishoujo novels” or something in that aspect.
Then again, I have not really played any Key VNs, but I have read the first 5 light novels in the Haruhi series and its impt to note that KyoAni only selected about 30% of his monologues. They also carried out the selection meticulously. Long but important ones were left in, like during the beginning of the Mystique Sign episode. Arguebly ate up a lot of screen time, but if they cut that one many novel enthusiasts would be tremendously dissappointed for sure.
I do agree that they somewhat upped his cyncism in the anime adaption, which I guess is all due to Sugita’s voice acting. While the anime adaption was rather light hearted in general (with much needed moe injections), any serious reader of the light novel will recognise the sense of danger in the novel is very much more threatening compared to the anime. While anime watchers will have the overall feeling that “this is GREAT stuff”, a light novel reader will be thinking rather “what the heck is Haruhi up to now!?” and “will the world survive her insanity!?” throughout reading the novels.
This gripping sense of extreme danger probably played a crucial role in downplaying Kyon’s true cynicism, that was either exaggarated or brought to light in the anime adaption.
The thing that bothers me the most about Haruhi (there are a lot of things that bothered me about Haruhi) is that both Haruhi and Kyon both represent stereotypical geek personalities that grate on me personally. Kyon’s so committed to being this detached, ironic audience stand-in. I guess that would be cool if he was more actively skewering the world around him, but nothing of value is said. Kyon’s only got slightly more insight and exactly as much agency as any other classically one-dimensional male harem lead. I don’t know whether it’s more irritating to watch someone stand there and take it or stand there and take it while rolling their eyes and muttering under their breath.
And Haruhi, my god. She’s an otaku whose biggest problem– despite, according to the show, being mentally and physically gifted in all respects– is that she doesn’t think she’s special enough. BUT, unbeknownst to her, she is the most super special thing anywhere ever. Ugh. I can actually hear the author wetly servicing his audience. It’s an awful noise.
I like Kyon precisely because he is such a sarcastic asshole. It makes me laugh. I like him for the exact same reasons that I like House. Also, my experience with the novels probably skewed my opinion quite a bit, as he does end up taking an active role in all of the later ones, and proves his worth as the male lead, which is quite different from what happens in the anime.
Of course, I doubt I would be able to tolerate either of them if I met them in real life.
Kyon and Yuuichi aren’t the only characters voiced by Sugita Tomokazu I’ve felt have come across as overly sarcistic. I’m not sure the guy’s honestly all that capable of getting rid of that tone as it pretty much is his acting style more or less. At least judging by everything I’ve ever heard him in.
And I’ve gotta be honest, I never liked Haruhi all that much either. The characters are shallow and don’t see a whole lot of character development beyond their initial introductions and really it’s just a bunch of wacky hijinks with the auspicion of some higher purpose in there. Nobody ever seems to benefit or really grow from their experiences in the events in any significant way that isn’t retconned or diminished at the end of the chapter and everybody is an archetype meant to cater to a specific fetish with little real depth or background. Take that an what you have left is pretty much raw entertainment, but even that starts to wear as the chapters/episodes go on and nothing manages to come of it but antics. That’s really what I took away from it all in that I couldn’t relate to a single character at all really beyond whatever fetish they were fulfilling (Haruhi=Bossy, Kyon= Reluctant Harem Lead, Mikuru=Happy Go Lucky Klutz Unaware Of Own Sex Appeal, Yuki=Borderline Loli Waif, Itsuki=Effiminate Good Natured Sort You Normally See In Clamp Works, Tsuruya= Uber Cheerful All Rounder, Kyon’s Sis=Loli Bait…….. So I felt it was a decent show, but just not great I guess. Certainly worth the eye candy it provided. The author also certainly knows his audience very well as you can tell when he is deliberately focusing and being pedantic at certain points to give them their fill. The sentences become really contracted and overly descriptive of non-”plot” relevant details. Look for it.