I’ve been watching Starship Operators the past couple of nights. I gave up on the show after a couple of episodes back when it first aired, but since it’s well-regarded in the circles I run in, I’ve been meaning to give it a second look. Unfortunately, it looks about the same as I remember. The story makes zero sense at times - and not because it’s especially complex or anything. Rather, the events that push the story forward so defy logic at times that I can’t make any sense of the big picture. It’s like trying to assemble a jigsaw puzzle from individual pieces that aren’t quite cut to fit. Keep mashing pieces together, and you’ll at least get them to stay connected, but you’re left with gaps all over the place and a pastoral Amish farm scene as viewed through the eyes of Pablo Picasso. That’s good enough for a five year old, but is it good enough for you? Is it good enough for me?
Maybe. Or, in the case of Starship Operators, I suppose it is, seeing as I’m still watching and all. It’s frustrating, yeah, but I’m used to it, so no big deal. I can laugh it off, roll my eyes, enjoy the show for whatever tickles my fancy (cute girls!)… I’ll find a way. And, as anime fans, I think that’s something we do often: we find a way. And for those anime fans who burn out and move on to other hobbies? Perhaps they didn’t find a way.
I’ve long felt that being an anime fan has just as much to do with putting up with the stuff you don’t like as it does with seeking out the stuff you do like. Why? Because anime’s just that eclectic and diverse a medium. Don’t like fanservice? Gonna be rough. Can’t stand moe or bishoujo game adaptations? Slim pickings lately. Run away, screaming in horror at first sight of a loli character? Might be missing out on some good shows.
Of course, that doesn’t mean you have an obligation as an anime fan to subject yourself to shows you don’t care for - especially at the expense of shows you do care for. However, if you spend all of your time and energy looking for the perfect show, you’re likely to be disappointed. Because, chances are, your perfect show doesn’t even exist… especially if you’re a furry loli vampire slice-of-life dramedy fan.
Then again, there was Magical Pokaan…
I felt the same way about Starship Operators until I got to the end. It was hard to suspend disbelief for many of the things that went on, especially the setup for the whole situation. When it was over I liked it quite a bit though. Maybe I just found something to like about it, as you say, and was willing to sit through a bunch of stupid to find it.
I don’t know, maybe I’m losing the ability to seek good stuff and instead of that just avoid everything that include things I dislike, this season hasn’t been exactly my dream one. When I watch that one slice of life josei drama per season I always hope they would make more those while knowing it probably don’t happen anytime soon.
I can see your point, but the Waffle guy is just a moron. He lost me after two paragraphs of taking the Sturgeon Law and running with it. And that guy is interviewed for Anime Nano? Good Lord.
>>I’ve long felt that being an anime fan has just as much to do with putting up with the stuff you don’t like as it does with seeking out the stuff you do like. Why? Because anime’s just that eclectic and diverse a medium. Don’t like fanservice? Gonna be rough. Can’t stand moe or bishoujo game adaptations? Slim pickings lately. Run away, screaming in horror at first sight of a loli character? Might be missing out on some good shows.
It’s why I try watching as many different shows as I can, and also why I end up liking something about every show I watch. I found when I /really/ started to watch anime that I tended to avoid watching certain things because I felt that they did not appeal to me. Having an anime club like CJAS that watches a variety of stuff introduces me and the other goers to different genres and combinations of genres that we probably would never hear of, much less see. It’s where I first saw Haibane Renmei, which I hadn’t heard of before then, which has become my all-time favorite anime and a nice starting to define what I like about anime. Since that, I have always been willing to give any anime a try to see how it is, and if it is something that I will continue watching. It’s why I checked out Bartender this season, and it might be why I’ll continue watching that show. :3
What’s odd is that Starship Operators is an exception to the norm in a lot of ways. It’s first off a novel adaptation IIRC. It is even original in some ways. And then it actually tries to be complicated in ways 90% of anime are not. Which is to say, more often than not the quirky stuff (especially the Kaleido Star example from Beta) are flaws in the production rather than the source material or original idea. SSO has problems in all three.
Honestly, I think anime can get away with being so crappy if you would know how cheap it is to produce them. SSO is definitely a show on a shoestring budget. But there is also something distinctive about anime–from 2d complex to tentacle porn–that other stuff just lack. Just talk to Satoshi Kon :)
And besides, it’s elitist. Just because a person who can’t spell or talks like a fool doesn’t mean he has nothing worthwhile to say.
I should mention that SSO is a pretty good show, all things considered. It improves tremendously in its second half… probably because it stops wasting time trying to explain itself and gets down to the business of telling a story. The final political machinations come off as a bit contrived (OK, really contrived), but they take a back seat to the human drama and the show’s strongest asset: the bitchin’ space battles.
I like me some space battles.
Okay, I bite. What’s so terribly “contrived” about the final politica machinations? I don’t think I can agree with that.
Amusingly, what you seem to consider a weakness in the general plot outline (to quote you “That’s good enough for a five year old, but is it good enough for you?”) is what I consider one of SSO’s strengths which sets it apart from most other anime shows: The fact that it has an overarching theme with real-life impact - the way the mass media is (ab)used for political purposes in the modern propaganda-waged opinion wars. Consequently, in my experience it’s been the more mature grown-up anime fans which valued SSO more highly than the younger “five-year old” crowd, on which most of this background issues are lost.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that SSO is without logical flaws and loops. We have Star-Trek like “deus ex machina” technobabble miracles. The relative power balance of what one ship can do against the entire military of whole planetary nations - and that such thing can be “bought” freely on open markets - is tilted. Nevertheless, I’m generally willing to accept background-defining issues like that without dwelling over them too much.
What remains in my eyes is a very bitter (and in modern times, highly relevant) criticism of the way media is used in modern times. The change of focus from fact-reporting to infotainment. The way how interested parties use it to further their goals. The cold realpolitik cynicism of Peter against the naive-narcistic enthusiasm of Dita. And the personal fates of the actual people of the crew which are used as pawns, and who struggle to get out of their self-inflicted dilemma once they realize what’s really happening.
If all of this seems like stuff for 5-year-olds to you, I venture a guess that most of this must have passed over your head somehow. As an old fart, I can only say that I enjoyed the show tremendously, especially its strong finish ;)
Oh, and one more thing:
omo, Starship Operators is one of the prettiest and most polished space shows which have been coming out recently. Very detailed and consistent artwork, good backgrounds and excellent CG when it came to the space scenes. How you can rate it as “crappy” and “cheap” is beyond me. You might want to check if you confuse the show with something else :)
Well i dont know about SSO so i cant tell about it, but i do know about Rozen Maiden, a serie that I really like a lot, specially Shinku, Sueseiseki and the little Hinaichigo (the picture above the page its from that anime).
Now, back with SSO…. ^_^
http://fariaae.cjb.net
There really is no point in trying to change someones opinion of a show. Because that is excatly what it is: their opinion.
Oh no!! Someone doesn’t like your favorite show of all time!!
Big deal.
Anyways, I tend to the same as TheBigN, just watch as many shows as possible so you don’t get to burned out. And I completely agree that a lot of the time, I look for something, anything, in a show that will keep me attached to it.
With so much to chose from anyways, true most not that good when aproached from a non-fan view point, we truely do have to find a way.
“I can see your point, but the Waffle guy is just a moron. He lost me after two paragraphs of taking the Sturgeon Law and running with it.”
Wow, its been a while since I’ve been called a moron online, not that I particularly disagree or anything. To be honest, I’m impressed anyone even got as far as me citing Sturgeons Law given how incoherently I was rambling without any real focus ^^; I really shouldn’t sit stewing on post topics all day, as I end up forgetting what I actually want to say by the time I could to actually write it.
I should probably have just said I really don’t get Kanons popularity (I think its something to do with the fact that the way half the female characters talk makes them seem more retarded than moe to me), or that I find a lot of these ero/bishojo game adaptions focus so much on hitting sweet points for fans of the original work that they forget to be entertaining to those who aren’t familiar with them.
As for Starship Operators, I actually quite liked that show. The concept, at least, was interesting, but the execution was fairly flawed - there was too much shift in character focus for my liking (particularly given it was a short show), and there were a few events which dragged on a bit too long after they were originally (heavily) signposted.
Ah, Mentar has spared me the trouble. Starship Operators is one of my favorites — partly because I like the way they portray space battles as lots of hurry-up-and-wait (and I rather liked Shinon’s surprise move when faced with overwhelming odds towards the end), I liked the way Shinon shows that “genius is 1% inspiration and 99% persperation” the way she gamed their first encounter over-and-over until she came up with a winning strategy.
And, as Mentar says, I liked its take on the “reality show” phenomenon and the role of media in politics and international relations.
The political resolution at the end did seem like it came out of nowhere, but it had been hinted at as early as the second episode, so I accept it.
But then, I’m an even older fart than Mentar.
There’s a series of novels, one of my ambitions is to read them some day.
Mentar, the entire plot of SSO is one extended quadruple-cushion bank shot into the pocket. From a practical standpoint, it’s beyond absurd. The bad guys get cocky and get themselves killed? But of course! Every strategy the cadets choose works perfectly? But of course! One guy manages to get multiple governments to act exactly as he predicts and desires, without actually DOING ANYTHING? But of course! You get the idea. It’s contrived. No better way to describe it. Almost all anime series that dive deep into politics (geopolitics, especially) have this problem, it seems… I have my theories as to why, but this isn’t the time or place for that, so…
But, you know, just because SSO touches on or explores some serious themes doesn’t mean the results are meaningful in any way.
As for the “five year old” remark, that’s an extension of the jigsaw puzzle analogy… you took it far too literally.
I’m at the point that I watch virtually nothing of a new season right away. And even then, I tend to watch only one or two series at best. Right now, my Winnybot at home is grabbing -only- Asatte no Houkou, and I haven’t even gotten around to watching it yet. Just haven’t really made the time.
It’s really annoying that I have this connection that can seed torrents at over 250k/s, but can’t get any Winny connections to save its life.
I kind of like weeding through the trash of a new season. Often, I’ll find a guilty pleasure or two, like Koi Koi Seven and Magipoka. These shows are about as filling as cotton candy, but are pleasant diversions. I watch anime to amuse myself, not to find the “perfect” anime. Leave the serious anime discussions for the ANN Forums, and bring on the alien, loli, cat-eared robot maids!
“I don’t disagree that 90% of everything is crap, its just that I tend to feel that if I applied the same critical eye I apply to US movies and TV to anime that even 90% of the good shows are crap.”
Word. I actually think your entire post was spot on.
I watch a lot of anime but I wouldn’t pretend for a second that much of it at all is “good” by any measure. I can admit that I watch anime solely for the unhinged imagination that goes into it and upfront it is about its escapism. Show after show after show about little girls trying their best? Come on. Not even the people that made it would claim it was anything else but a loss leader to sell figurines and soundtracks.
When I read the opinions of anime fans saying that they don’t watch US TV because it sucks compared to anime I just shake my head at how insular the fandom has become.
>>> The bad guys get cocky and get themselves killed?
Well, usually they have the advantage in numbers. It’s not that unusual for people to be cocky and stupid, especially when they have the advantage.
>>> Every strategy the cadets choose works perfectly?
They work (not perfectly though) because their opponents are predictably cocky and stupid.
>>> One guy manages to get multiple governments to act exactly as he predicts and desires, without actually DOING ANYTHING?
No. He underestimated how greedy governments are. That’s why he ended up dead.
Not to mention there are only, like, two major governments.
There are perfect shows but those are usually one of the first you ever watched. After a while you’ll be able to compare shows and what seemed original the first time - even if it wasn’t - will appear like a cheap - or at best polished - copy in comparison.
I don’t watch any US TV or movies simply because I’m lucky to live very far from the USA and further I simply don’t care. That said most shows are definitely crap no matter where they are from or what genre they are but that’s about as relevant as saying water is wet.
Sorry for answering late, Jeff, but I was a bit busy in the last 1-2 days doing bad things. Bad things you might have watched by now ;)
So let’s get back to the point…
> Mentar, the entire plot of SSO is one extended quadruple-cushion bank shot into
> the pocket. From a practical standpoint, it’s beyond absurd.
Wow, now that was a spectacular smashdown. Now let’s see what you have behind the wrapping.
> The bad guys get cocky and get themselves killed? But of course!
Who are the “bad guys”? On of the beauties of SSO is that there are no real bad guys at
all. Everyone - even their opposition - acts reasonable within their normal spheres.
So who could you mean exactly as “bad guys”?
> Every strategy the cadets choose works perfectly? But of course!
Not at all. If you remember, the Amateras/Shenlong battle against the kingdom fleet
failed badly, and they barely escaped with their lives. But for real now - you’re an anime
fan and complain that the “novices” for some reason perform above their level? :)
> One guy manages to get multiple governments to act exactly as he predicts and
> desires, without actually DOING ANYTHING? But of course!
In fact, this was the key line, because I get the distinct impression that you failed to
comprehend the story (sorry), and this might be the reason why you seem to dislike
the plot so much. Because there is no “one guy” in the story who did what you said.
For easier regognizability, I’ll use the characters’ functions instead of their names.
The technical officer on the Amateras orchestrated the “crew buys out Amateras,
with Galaxy Network as patron, hoping to incite the Earth Federation to save them”
plan. He failed and died in the end, and as he said himself - “it was a gamble”. He
only rolled the dice but he couldn’t really influence anything afterwards.
The former president boarding the Amateras also could do next to nothing. He
tried his hardest to drum up popular support for the Amateras at the UN, but was
unable to achieve it. Basically, as a figure in the show he was merely there to
explain and illustrate the political angle. No decision he made or no recommendation
he gave had any real influence on what happened (a very amusing detail IMHO)
No other character in the show matches your upper desciption even remotely.No, this was
no show about machiavellian planning in the background which by the grace of the writer
succeeded. It was a show about a bunch of cadets making a crazy decision, who were
then tossed around in a tempest of war and politics they then tried to get out of, a
tempest which they were entirely unable to control. There was never a master plan, only
players taking advantage of weaknesses of their peers when the occasion arose (and
these weaknesses were generally caused by the Amateras). Very realistic in my eyes.
> It’s contrived. No better way to describe it.
Contrived would only be the initial plot setting with the extremely high-powered warship
in possession of a news channel - but as I said, I’m willing to accept this as a basis of
a story. After this, the rest of the story was fairly logical to me.
Please don’t take this personal, but based on your comments it’s more likely that you
completely misunderstood the story and its resolution. There was no master plan. There
were only predators preying on each other for their own advantages. But if you have any
_concrete_ examples of unrealistic contrived happenings, please list them. I’ll try to
answer what explanations I might see for them.
> But, you know, just because SSO touches on or explores some serious themes
> doesn’t mean the results are meaningful in any way.
True. After all, anime is a medium of entertainment first. I don’t know if I would call
the way SSO explores the issues which _I_ considered important “meaningfull”, but I’d
call them interesting and instructive. But that’s certainly in the eye of the beholder.
> As for the “five year old” remark, that’s an extension of the jigsaw puzzle analogy…
> you took it far too literally.
*shrug*
You were posing the question whether this (in your opinion) inferior storytelling which
would potentially satisfy a 5-year-old would be enough for us (the readers). And I took
the liberty to point out that SSO is one of the worst possible examples for this, because
the show is definitely aimed at a mature audience. It’s simply too complicated and
complex for kids.
I’ll grant that it’s not difficult to get the story wrong. When I first watched it (back then in
raw form) I also misunderstood a couple of things, so I was very surprised when at the
end, when I was working on the fansub, I slowly began to realize what REALLY happened.
And when you have to watch pretty much every part of the anime 4-5 times in a row,
you catch alot of details which evaded you before.
I’d almost challenge you to watch SSO again with the new perspective, and see if your
opinion will change ;) … but okay, I’m not holding my breath.