Mecha? I mean, seriously… MECHA?
Utawarerumono done gone and jumped the shark.
Actually, I think the show’s been on a downhill slide ever since the “HAKURO SMASH!” arc. I just didn’t want to come out and say it. My overall opinion of the show is still positive, and I have to admit that it’s still a lot of fun when it wants to be. However, the story has completely fallen apart.
Oh well.
Before Utawarerumono was big, the Wikipedia entry essentially said “It is a fantasy story but it goes all sci-fi at the end”. Most of that is paraphrased, but “goes all sci-fi” is a great term. Technically I’m “not” watching it any more. Do I care, or dare, to find out what all the fuss is?
That hardly seems fair. :( The premise of fantasy settings turning out to be futuristic settings in disguise has been done before, and done well. To give an example, Scrapped Princess.
Unless you are a Mecha-Hater, the story progression of Utawarerumono has been good thus far, with hints/foreshadowing given from time to time on what to expect in the future episodes. The OP alone has been very spoilerish if you were to view it on hindsight.
For me, the show has managed to remain captivating. I also have the benefit of not knowing the story beforehand, so I am eager to find out the reason(s) behind the existence of the mecha, and how it relates to the ‘beast-form’ of Hakuoro( among other threads such as the condition of Kamyu).
Mecha, huh? Well hot damn, I better get to watching past episode 1, then :3
//Unless you are a Mecha-Hater//
That’s probably what it is.
Also one has to wonder how Jeff could have been actually been surprised at this, considering the rather large hint given at the end of Episode 17
From the OP,
Mecha in Utawarerumono
It’s been a fun series to watch for me so far, but Kuuya seems way out of character in episode 21. Up until now, Kuuya’s an insecure young emperor asking Hakuoro’s advice, but suddenly she sends the Gundam Army to invade neighboring countries in the name of world peace and liebenstraum? And her friend Hakuoro doesn’t even get a courtesy call before Infinite Justice is knocking on the front door of the capital of Tsukuru? It just doesn’t seem to ring true somehow…
You guys are missing the point. The mecha, gimmicky as it may be, isn’t what bothers me. It’s the sloppy storytelling that bothers me. It’s like the writers thought of all these interesting scenarios, yet never figured out how to weave them together for the sake of a larger story…
Scenario Writer #1: “We need a war here!”
Scenario Writer #2: “Why?”
Scenario Writer #1: “Because… we need a war!”
Scenario Writer #3: “Good enough for me.”
The show does it again and again and… well, you get the picture. I put up with it for awhile, but it’s getting tough. This most recent “war”, which makes zero sense whatsoever, is too much to handle. And if it’s the catalyst for the show’s final act, I can’t help but worry the whole thing’s about to collapse into a steaming pile of crap. Perhaps Hakuro and Oboro are on to something.
As for the mecha… it’s just something else to roll my eyes at.
I wasn’t even touching the point but hey: at least the war’s better than the “comedy” episodes any day of the week.
Actually, the comedy is the part of the show I’ve enjoyed most. Hasn’t been much of that in recent episodes, unfortunately.
The common thread between the recent wars has been Dii( the silent angel guy, who gets named and speaks in Ep21). One way or another, he somehow plays a role in inciting these wars. The wars ARE connected, but WHY are they connected has not been revealed yet( as in why Dii is doing all this).
As for the latest war, Kuuya is young and unable to cope with the pressure from her people and her ‘advisors’. She relies too much on Genjimaru for advice, and this leads to her downfall when Hauenkua and Hien take advantage of his absence to push her into starting a campaign to ‘unite’ the countries under one rule( their rule).
Now, as to why she decides to attack Hakuoro. If you recall the talk she had with Genjimaru in the tent, she is well aware that she is attacking neutral( and friendly) countries as well. However, as followers of a different God( the part about them being all alone and isolated from the rest of the world), she would be hardpressed to convince these neutral countries( including Hakuoro’s) to capitulate to her rule.
So her policy is to conquer these countries by force, and ask for their forgiveness later( although Genjimaru does question her logic here).
No, it is not the best policy, but Kuuya is not exactly following a sane one in the first place. The pressure of leadership and the pressure from her advisors has pushed her into this situation.
She is, to put it one way, being manipulated.
Cheers.
Re:Skane:
Paraphrasing Jeff:
Dii: “We need a war here!”
Kuuya: “Why?”
Dii: “Because… we need a war!”
Toady: “Good enough for me.”
I certainly agree with you. The show has gone off the rails to become someone bolder, more structured and completely lacking in subtly. The recent 2-episode arc, for example, was so short as to be a waste of time. Whatever spark it once had has been removed and replaced with constant war and a psychotic nun, and it seems like they’re adding elements for the sake of it (zombies, mecha) that seem completely out of the context of the show’s original, humbler form..
Before I enjoyed the show earnestly, but now I see it in more of a comedic light, a show to laugh with but also to laugh at.
Hmm… for me, Utawarerumono is watchable still, even with the jump-the-shark mecha moments it’s having now. Being a watcher of one-too-many animes, Utawarerumono is clearly suffering from the classic case of cramming too much material in to too little episodes.
But still, I think I was deneutralised by the legendary comedy episodes it’s been offering and I wouldn’t mind a jump-the-shark thing or two. But to be honest, I’ve been a bit spoiled to the appearence of the mechas anyways from reading bits and pieces here and there, so it wasn’t really as jarring as I thought.
Perhaps if you think of the mecha as large armour suits it might seem more bearable. At least they don’t hold guns or fire rockets, but they just might spit fire. I’m still okay with that. Utawarerumono might need that sort of mecha element to solve Hakuoro’s identity. However, I do hope i don’t need to take my comments back.
I agree with Jeff. I mean, really… Bunnies in mechs? Up to that point, I was willing to forgive the poor plot in favor of character development. The Natunk Arc didn’t add much to the story, but it did give us a nice look at Karura’s past. Mobile Gundam Usagi Seed Destiny is doing nothing for the story other than setting up the final Arc. I’ve been enjoying the show for the characters and their interaction more than the story. But now, I’m dropping it.
Skane mentioned Scrapped Princess. That was my problem with that series. The futuristic, sci-fi elements kind of ruined it for me. It would be like watching King Arthur fight with a huge mech. Keep the time periods somewhat consistent!
If you watch the mecha/armored suits/whatever in action, it’s obvious they’ve been built using fairly advanced technology - which is weird when you consider that there’s been no hint of anything even approaching said technology existing in Utawarerumono’s world up to this point. If it turns out they’re powered by magic or zombies (or magic zombies), their existence might make a little more sense. But, if they’re nothing more than machines, it implies that some sort of spontaneous industrial revolution occurred in this shitty little country without anyone noticing. And, besides, it’s difficult to believe a nation possessing such technology would be as embattled as the story suggests. It could rule the world through economic might alone.
Of course, given the show’s strategy game origins, I know I’m asking too much. The fact that major plot developments consist of little more than “Here comes a new challenger!” shouldn’t surprise me. And I’ve played my fair share of RPGs in which a once majestic story is tossed aside near the end because the scenario writers are solely focused on increasing the intensity level leading up to the final battle. Being a strategy RPG, Utawarerumono is even worse off… it’s all about the battles, after all.
Still, it seems to me the TV series did a pretty good job balancing story (and character development) with the battles early on. Now that the pace has quickened, however, the writers can’t seem to keep up. That’s why I’m disappointed.
I would like to say, the show has not ended yet. There is still time to explain the whys and hows.
Yes. You are disappointed because the beginning of the show was awesome. Can I roll my eyes now too?
In some sense I sympathize with you (because I am still watching it), but OTOH you said you should know better and I think you do, so …
Personally I thought Shadow Warrior Chronicle was a show fitting of its new name, and is fairly forgettable. The comedy AND the epic-appealing random wars get their jobs done but neither is really all that. What’s left in the show, namely seeing the various relationships of Hakuoro’s harem coming together, is like a carrot on a stick.
………….
………….
huh
Utawarerumono the game was known not for it’s simplistic gameplay but for it’s storytelling, to say something like ‘Of course, given the show’s strategy game origins, I know I’m asking too much’ sounds awfully like not knowing what you’re talking about while trying to. I won’t debate with your opinion of the anime but don’t throw in opinions as facts, such as crap like, ‘Being a strategy RPG, Utawarerumono is even worse off… it’s all about the battles, after all.’
Except, you know, Utawarerumono IS a strategy RPG. Wouldn’t you agree that battles sequences are the bread and butter of a strategy RPG? If Leaf/Aquaplus was simply interested in telling a story, they could have made a visual novel.
As for the “opinions as facts” bullshit… if you have an issue with my opinion, please say so. Don’t dismiss it with an, “Ah, he’s just a clueless moron talking out of his ass.” That’s lazy.
They could’ve have, but they felt it’s more interesting to let the players play out certain fights, and so that’s all there is to it.
As for your ‘opinions’, I don’t have a problem with you saying that you dislike or disappointed with or whatever with the story, why would I. What I have a problem IS the clueless moron talking out of his ass, tell me what are you basing off of what you said? The fact that it’s based of a game? The fact that said game is a RPG? So just because you generalize it as a strategy RPG than it’s obvious the story will fail and suck?
Please do not touch on what you do not understand; I do not mind if you say the anime itself delivered itself poorly, which is arguable, or if you’re disappointed with the inclusion of futuristic elements in a fantasy setting, which is arguable, but talking about the game as if you know the game or in other words, know what you’re talking about is just lazy.
Ayyo has taken his debating tactics from here.
Sigh… you don’t get it, do you?
I never said anything about the story “failing” or “sucking”. What I’m saying is that, as a strategy RPG, the story will develop in such a way that allows for battle sequences to occur. The quality of the story itself is irrelevant. What matters is that, in a strategy RPG, the battle sequences must occur, story be damned. It’s the battle sequences that move the game forward. The story has to allow for that - and if it requires continuous feats of narrative gymnastics, so be it.
Now, waltzing in here and suggesting I, “not touch what [I] do not understand,” is akin to saying, “I can’t really argue with you, so I’ll just call you an idiot and intimidate you with my vast knowledge of everything Utawarerumono. Be gone, simpleton!”
I hate to tell you, but I’m not an idiot, and I’m not easily intimidated.
Really, I think the show just touched your “Anti-mecha” spinal reflex. Let the show explain where the mecha came from.
I have a pretty good idea, and it doesn’t involve a spontaneous invention by…whatever the hell Kuuya’s country is called.
Oh, on another note, that moon sure looks darn familiar don’t it?
I’m really not “anti-mecha”, though. Perhaps not “pro-mecha”, but not “anti-mecha”, either. The introduction of mecha (and the associated plot development) was just the point at which I realized how dissatisfied with the story I had become.
I figure there’s an explanation for the mecha that’s yet to come… whether that explanation will be satisfactory or not, I can’t say. I’ll just have to wait and see. But, the show hasn’t been doing all that great a job managing story threads as of late, so it’s a bit bothersome to see yet another new story thread introduced at this point. It’s like when you’re having trouble chewing a piece of meat, yet keep stuffing more side dishes in your mouth in the hope it’ll make it easier to swallow. That rarely works.
Sigh… did I say you said it was ‘failing’ or ’sucking’? No. I was saying even if you had said that, there would be grounds for arguement. What vast knowledge of everything Utawarerumono? Oh, did I say I have a vast knowledge or I’m was trying to intimidate you? Don’t think so, and I’m not sure what basis you’re picking up on to say that.
Since you didn’t get it clear the second time, let me reexplain the ‘incompatibly’ going on here: you’re basing off of the fact that it’s based off of a strategy rpg that ‘the story will develop in such a way that allows for battle sequences to occur’ and that ‘The quality of the story itself is irrelevant’ because of it, and again, under what grounds do you declare that? The problem isn’t saying the book sucks, it’s saying the book sucks because the movie it’s based on sucks, even though you didn’t watch the movie. Oh, don’t go paraphrasing me this time saying that I had said that you had said it ’sucked’, it’s an “example”.
If you want to argue your beliefs, fine with me, I like a good mature or immature arguement, but dislocate yourself from thinking ‘oh it’s based off a zyx, of course it has to be like abc’ first.
If you go back and read your previous comments, I think you’ll find that I’m not paraphrasing as much as you think. Don’t hide behind semantics.
Other than that, I think I’ve explained my opinion to the best of my ability. I suppose you’re suggesting that, since I didn’t play the game, I should avoid discussing the game. Reasonable enough, I suppose. Or not, actually. But, if that’s the position you’ve taken, anything I say will fall on deaf ears, because you’ve already stuck your fingers in them.
If you watch enough shows that are based on games, you’ll see a lot of the same problems popping up again and again. There are inherent weaknesses in these sort of adaptations. Many of the issues I have with the Utawarerumono TV series at this point are the same sort of issues I have with a lot of other game-based shows. Furthermore, if the issues I have with the Utawarerumono TV series storyline are also similar to issues I have with strategy RPG game storylines in general, I think it’s reasonable to assume the original material may be at fault. Obviously, you’re a fan of the game, so you’re better acquainted with the original material than I am. Perhaps something weird happened in the adaptation? Perhaps the pacing is all wrong? I don’t know. Clearly, you’re in a position to teach me something here, but I shouldn’t have to prostrate myself in front of you beforehand.
>> Here comes the a new challenger >> Still, it seems to me the TV series did a pretty good job balancing story (and character development) with the battles early on. Now that the pace has quickened, however, the writers can’t seem to keep up. That’s why I’m disappointed.
Finally, it might have been possible for you to have avoided confrontation with Ayyo had you worded your comments differently.
@ Ayyo
Even though everything will be explained and made sensible in the end, if something feels either forced or hurried at any moment, that means there probably is a problem with the story telling, for story telling is not an end product, but a process that moves people from plot point X to Y. Although my knowledge of the game is limited, I do believe the game’s story makers should have let more time to pass and more incidence to occur before bringing about Kuuya’s conquest ( the war against the first nation can and should be considered a defensive war, but the war against the 2nd nation was clearly a needless conquest, which would have invited conflict against the 3rd and 4th country even without Dii’s manipulation, due to stretching of the resources and large gaps in border defense ). To tell the truth, I have trouble believing how Tusukuru have survived so many wars in such short amount of time for I don’t think enough time was given for them to recover lost man power and more importantly, replenish their food stock, for they probably would not have had good harvest for some time; when wars are fought, farms suffer for many, many different reasons. In this sense Utawarerumono game is very weak on the most important part of strategy; Logistics. Only justification given is that all of their wars was somewhat defensive and reactionary in nature, that is why I like the parts where Hakuoro keeps trying diplomatic solutions, but still I have trouble believing how every country could have moved all that supplies to various places in such a short amount of time, while their effective border grows longer and longer. Also, how come so few people knows about the mecha, Amun-Kabh?, when so many eyes have seen them? Wouldn’t the defending force, knowing the existence of large size moving war machine, try to counter it with something that can damage large structures, like a catapult or simple hidden hole in the ground? Based on these considerations, I think you are giving story telling within Utawarerumono a too high a mark.
I find many stories within Utawarerumon, even those that didn’t appear on the screen to be funny or worthy to dwell upon. I also believe anime makers made the story stronger by working around those ‘H scenes’ as some of those situation feels forced and irrelvant to the plot flow. It also is that the missing episodes from the game could have made people feel better about how the story is progressing now, but this does not justify your statements towards Jeff Lawson. Majority of the game time for Utawarerumono is spent on managing the battle, thus any anime based on Utawarerumon has to acknowledge this and plan the plots and schedules around a few key battles. Moreover, Jeff was talking about expectations, which still could be met or exceeded, and I agree with his description of story telling in most RPG games. Story telling in Utawarerumon feels like an exception to the case, but still, even that is personal opinion, thus you have no right to use word ‘crap’, you should have respected his general opinion about RPG, the opinion which I share, incidentally, and you have not given us any materials to re-evalutate Utawarerumono. I believe you, ayyo, owes Jeff an apology.
Is there a word limit to the post? Front Half of my post is gone. wait! this is that dreaded html curse where ‘>’ and ‘
It was the Html curse! Mr. Lawson, could you please replace my trouble making sign with something else in order to show my post in its entirety?
Sorry, but all I have is what was published.
Brief summary of what I wanted to say.
1. I agree with many things Jeff Lawson said, but I don’t think the story telling has fallen down that much. My expectations seems to have been lowered than most people here, though.
2. I am surprised that none of the advisor spoke out in common sense: It is easier to gain control of a territoy than maintain control over a territory. Add in the fact that there now will be big gaps in Kuuya’s border defense, any greedy country would be considering a raid into Kuuya’s territory, thus it makes no sense nobody tried to use Urutori’s diplomatic gesture as to cease aggression and secure the border. How in the world can majority sentiment to not have been ‘ we just won another battle so let’s enjoy the spoils of war before thinking about other things. ‘?
3. It makes no sense why they would entrust diplomatic dialogue to only one person, whom most people dislikes. It makes even less sense for any government to ignore coming and going such visible diplomat.
4. Finally, it might have been possible for Jeff to have avoided confrontation with Ayyo had he worded his comments differently.
Just a reminder that the following is from me who has not played the game before, so I do not have the advantage of hindsight either. I know not what the ending holds.
One of the reasons why I am upset is because there seems to be a backlash among the animeblogs I read, on the issue of the mechas’ appearances in the series. JL’s blog and some aside( in bold, in case people fail to see it), people seem to be bashing Utawarerumono and automatically assigning the status of ‘SUCK’ to it. “Holy jumping to conclusions, Batman!”
Maybe my suspension of disbelief is wired differently, but my immersion was not shattered asunder when they appeared. If anything, they made me more curious. They made me more eager to find out the truth behind the mysteries in the series.
A single fighter( not mecha, FIGHTER( Plane)) scrapping an entire enemy fleet? Broken immersion. An antagonist failing to shoot the protagonist from one foot away? Broken immersion. Etc…
I generally only take issue when there is a LOGICAL fallacy. The mechas’ appearance in Utawarerumono is not one( so far). At this point of the series, their existence CAN still be explained, and explained properly( if not excellently). Would you still take issue if it was not mecha, but say… M1A-Abraham tanks?
Taking Scrapped Princess as an example again, Utawarerumono may actually be set in the future. If so, they would then need to explain why the people seem to be stuck with the technology of the feudal ages.
~~~~ ~~~~
“2. I am surprised that none of the advisor spoke out in common sense: It is easier to gain control of a territoy than maintain control over a territory. Add in the fact that there now will be big gaps in Kuuya’s border defense, any greedy country would be considering a raid into Kuuya’s territory, thus it makes no sense nobody tried to use Urutori’s diplomatic gesture as to cease aggression and secure the border. How in the world can majority sentiment to not have been ‘ we just won another battle so let’s enjoy the spoils of war before thinking about other things. ‘?”
First of all, their country is an outcast due to their different religion. They worship the equivalent of the Devil in the eyes of the other countries. Diplomacy… is going to be hard. They are constantly under siege by their neighbours( no exact reason was given, but it is not too hard to infer that it is because the invaders are on a crusade to ‘cleanse’ the lands of the ‘heretics’), and this will easily lead to desires of payback and a feeling of being victimised unfairly.
Common sense flies out of the window when you are cornered and badgered constantly. It was only a matter of time before they ’snapped’ and went on a counter-crusade to ’save’ their people and their way of life. They are basically following the policy of killing ALL of those that would oppose them. When all of your enemies are dead, no one will be left to bother you. This seems to be their line of thinking at the moment.
~~~~ ~~~~
“3. It makes no sense why they would entrust diplomatic dialogue to only one person, whom most people dislikes. It makes even less sense for any government to ignore coming and going such visible diplomat.”
Okay, I concede on this part. I have no concrete idea on why Hauenkua is the ambassador either. Guy must have a bitchin contract or the backing of unions or something. :p
~~~~ ~~~~
With regards to the passage of time, if you have been observing the arcs’ progression, there has always been a period of peace inbetween the major arcs. It is not too hard to infer that sufficient time passed during these intermission episodes.
~~~~ ~~~~
In conclusion( for this post), I feel that at this point of the series, it has NOT jumped the shark yet( if ever).
Cheers.
Sigh. I don’t think the show “sucks”. If you go back and read my post, you’ll see that my overall opinion of the show is positive. Rather, I just think the story has fallen apart… and it started many episodes back. In fact, I’ve had some issues with the story from the very beginning, but it wasn’t until the Shikeripetim arc that those issues actually started bugging me enough to affect my enjoyment of the show.
At this point, I wish I had never even brought up the issue of the mecha. Do I see the introduction of the mecha as gimmicky? Sure. Does it bug me? Yeah. Is it the primary source of my dissatisfaction with the show? Not at all.
Obviously, I’ve hit a nerve here… which is strange, because, while Utawarerumono is a popular enough show, I’ve never thought of it as some sort of sacred cow like, say, Haruhi. And I’m surprised that some longtime visitors - people who should know me pretty well, and know my writing style - are misinterpreting my original post. I keep going back and reading it, trying to figure out if I should have worded something differently, but I keep coming up empty.
So, to clarify: I think Utawarerumono is a good show, but I don’t care for the direction the story has taken, and I fear for the ending as result. It’s not fun watching something you’ve enjoyed go down in flames. Obviously, that’s my OPINION.
And I’m tired of explaining this (whining about it, rather), so I’ll let you guys have the floor.
>>> Common sense flies out of the window when you are cornered and badgered constantly. It was only a matter of time before they ’snapped’ and went on a counter-crusade to ’save’ their people and their way of life. They are basically following the policy of killing ALL of those that would oppose them. When all of your enemies are dead, no one will be left to bother you. This seems to be their line of thinking at the moment.
That is true. What is disturbing is that what you need for this is not an acutal persecution, but a perceived persecution that may exist only in people’s mind.
>>> So, to clarify: I think Utawarerumono is a good show, but I don’t care for the direction the story has taken, and I fear for the ending as result.
I think Utawarerumono is still a good show. There are some events in the latter part of game’s story that I don’t like, so I am not surprised to see some people becoming disappointed as we approach the end, but there still are some good stories left, and I am also hoping for some minor changes to improve upon game’s original story plot.
I still find it amazing that some people think that calling the site-owner names is a good debating tactic.
I gave up on the show after ep4. Been there, done that.
So would you perfer yes-men?
Anyway, it’s a day and a half late but I would like to clarify something before my connection goes down again - The ‘nerve’ that was touch (to me) was not because of whether I’m fan of the anime and/or game or not, or if you like or dislike whatever, but because of this statement which you even clarified yourself:
“What I’m saying is that, as a strategy RPG, the story *****WILL***** develop in such a way that allows for battle sequences to occur. The quality of the story itself is irrelevant. What matters is that, in a strategy RPG, the battle sequences must occur, >>>>story be damned
[cutted off by the left lash]
****tory be damned****.”
What is that? Is that your opinion? Or is that an opinion said so matter-of-factly that you presume it’s a given fact behind the workings of a strategy rpg?
But I’ll end this since I’ll look premature especially after you said you left the floor.
@ wontaek reply towards me
How can I answer that? Maybe they didn’t have an effective leader or people back then were uneducated? After all, Hakuoro was treated as god sent just because of his planting methods, plus I think you should have already knew why some of those were as they were.
As for your arguement of that majority of the gametime is spent in the game mode (which itself is arguable too), what does that mean? So if a game has 30 hours of story and 70 hours of gameplay, that automatically means that everything is about the fights or battles or whatever? Thats an unreasonable statement.
I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting at with regard to “fact” vs. “opinion”. This is a commentary blog, so there’s no shortage of opinion. Thus, if it looks like opinion, it’s probably opinion.
As for the opinion in question, it’s based on experience. Next time, I’ll be sure to consult the Big Book of Strategy RPG Game Facts before saying anything. Would you like footnotes as well?
By the way, as pissed off as I may sound, I’m really not. It just seems as if you’re arguing semantics, Ayyo, which is, for all basic purposes, a big fat waste of time. It’s annoying, too.
@ Ayyo
Here are my opinions.
1. As for the original story in the game, although there are some things of interest, I find that there are many elements that just disrupts the suspension of disbelief, so although I still thinks it is a good story overall, I cannot support any statement claiming the story to be great, nor the below comment for I am a little critical of the story telling.
‘Utawarerumono the game was known not for it’s simplistic gameplay but for it’s storytelling’
2. My examples are some of the part I found hard to believe or imagine. It is to showcase that I have some problem with the story part of the game itself, and those not think Utawarerumono has done enough to discredit the following comment by Jeff.
‘ What I’m saying is that, as a strategy RPG, the story will develop in such a way that allows for battle sequences to occur. The quality of the story itself is irrelevant. What matters is that, in a strategy RPG, the battle sequences must occur, story be damned. It’s the battle havsequences that move the game forward.’
3. ‘ So if a game has 30 hours of story and 70 hours of gameplay, that automatically means that everything is about the fights or battles or whatever? ‘
No, but that does mean that programmers as developers probably have invested at least twice the time and resource in to battle game engine compared to the story line. If you consider that the bugs and cheats will very likely occur within the gameplay, my proposed ratio might be too generous in favor of the story telling. This reality has made most RPG game story quality to suffer as you approach the end. I played my share of RPG games and many of them I gave up half way through for the story no longer was as attractive as the beginning. I have no doubt that I have missed couple of good stories because of it, but still the story could have been made better by either shortening it, or by letting the characters have alternative solutions to the combat. One of things I liked in Utawarerumono is that Hakuoro always explore diplomatic solutions. What I don’t like is that he never succeeds in achieving peaceful resolution. The reason for his failure lies not in abilities or inherent characteristics of the people in the game, but the mere fact that battle cannot take place if there is non-violent ending to the conflict, and even if such choice were given to the players, it probably won’t be taken for they would miss out on some needy experience and loots; This is the inherent problem of story in most RPG, and RPG cannot be one if there are many ways out of the same situation. I do remember the game Baldur’s Gate tried to address the issue by giving quest experience points for peaceful solutions, but I don’t think Utawarerumono does that, and game makers knows about possibility that all their ingenuity that went into a battle scene might not see much light of the day if there are too many ways out of it.
Thanks for the insightful comment, Wontaek. I was discussing this subject last night with a friend, and your final paragraph is essentially a synopsis of our conversation.
Wow, thats probably the longest discussion for a post with only about 50 words in it that I’ve seen.
I’m a mecha hater, but if Utawareruthingy decides to go mecha, then so be it. It is a great eseries with lovable characters and hopefully it wont be spoiled by mecha the same way KnM was.
@ jeff
It’s not so much as getting facts wrong as it is the difference between saying ‘probably because’ and ‘because it is’. Semantics you call it, fine.
@ wontraek’s #3
Now I’m not an expert in the makings behind a game but I think people involved with programming and people involved with scenarios are different from each other. You say they probably might have invested twice as much time and resources for the battle engine, but how so? You played it right? In this case, the first step was probably to build up the battle engine used here. Next its to make out the next 16 battles with it.
Now if you had seen the game, can you honestly believe that more time was spent on the gameplay than on the scenario (story/characters)? Becasue I can’t, and I would love to be proved otherwise. Your statement does hold true to many rpgs, and many games in general, but it doesn’t hold true for ALL games or all strategy rpg games, which is my point. Yes, there are games where gameplay have the grip and control over the story, and there are games where the time spent on the story is but only a fraction compared to the resources spent on making the water ripple in 3D, but then there cases where the story recieves as much attention, if not, more than the gameplay.
I think the case here with you is that you find non-violent situations or situations that doesn’t involve the gameplay not happening as meaning that the story is just something inbetween a battle and the next, which is both true and untrue. In the case with Utawarerumono, there were diplomatic situations, and then there weren’t. What about when Hakuoro united the tribes both whatshisface, the brother/cousin of Rak Shine, attacked? In true RPG senses, they’re could’ve just made it that Hakuoro had to gain everyone’s support throguh conquest, but they didn’t. Likewise, many many battles that took place in the story we couldn’t even play out but the anime showed. One for example was when Benwai was stationed to slow down Niwe’s forces, they showed that in the anime but it was used as bypassing comment in the game where we couldn’t even see.
There are games where the story ‘bends over’ for the gameplay, but I don’t think Utawarerumono is one of them and I don’t think the comment that it holds true for all strategy rpgs is appropriate neither.
united the tribes *before whatshisface
>>> You say they probably might have invested twice as much time and resources for the battle engine, but how so? You played it right?
Judging from what I heard from those involved with programming of any kind, the biggest time slot always go to error detection and debugging. With Utawarerumono, the next biggest time slot was probably devoted to CG scene creations like character design and various clothings and decorations that accompany particular scenes. Undoubtably, many effort were made to convey the feeling of the story to the viewers. The third probably would be the coding itself, for no code, no game. What probably receives least attention is the sounds and music; something game makers other than Key put too little emphasis in. Now, making a story, although not easy, is somewhat a straight forward progress. Game Engine cannot be, as same battle situations will be repeatedly tested and tweaked to achieve desired difficulties ( there are 5, right? ) and making sure there are ways for players to win and hopefully have some fun in the process. Therefore an hour worth of story could be made with about 3 hour worth of work, if the main scenario writer is good, but an hour worth of game play would require at least 10 hours of game testing, and this doesn’t include coding, debugging, and initial condition setting determinations. A good estimate of resource distribution can be made by counting how many people were involved in which section of game developement in the credits and you will find more names in game engine section or graphics section compared to story making section in Utawarerumono as well.
Finally, I’m beginning to realise that the real issue is something else here. It is whether you like the flow of the Utawarerumono story or not. I think I am giving the stories in Utawarerumno a lower marking than many of the people commenting here, despite having read full translation of the game story in English and Korean. Although Utawarerumono has a novel twist in the end, the game screen capture of the last battle reminds me of the Final giant god boss of games like Langrishar, Shining Force, Baldur’s gate, Knight of Xentar ( yes, please refrain from throwing more than 3 deadly objects at me ), and Final Fantasy: Why are most of the final boss so large? In fact, I really wish they made Utawarerumono more strategic game like Romance of Three Kingdoms and various custom made Civilization scenarios so the stories could have been even more flexible and much richer in various details. So, returning to the Anime series itself, I am hoping for some modifications to the details in Utawarerumono story and, thus, continue to exceed my, originally low, expectations. I still concur with Jason in AoMM about this statement, slightly edited to fit the flow here.
Utawarerumono shows how to properly make a non-H anime series from a H-game.
Real Last note: My wife really liked realistic tactical and strategical decision makings within the anime. She thinks Kunnekamun’s harsh reaction to incursion by other countries to be lacking of common sense, thus unrealistic; my comments about their failure in diplomatic protocols and over stretching of their borders were based on her comments. My wife is much smarter than I.
I don’t really like Mecha, but I think Utawarerumono made it work XD The ending was a confusing at first, but I really enjoyed it, and it was a great if at first weird twist to the story ^-^