“Duh, Love Hina sucks SO MUCH.”
How many times have you heard that particular line (or something similar)? A lot, I would expect. That’s “conventional wisdom” for you. Get enough adherents of a niche subculture together in the same place, and you’ll eventually find most everyone agreeing on most everything. Or pretending to, at least.
The anime fan community is not immune to this, unfortunately. Once the community has settled on a general opinion of a show, character, or studio, that opinion is enshrined as “fact”, never to be challenged, lest ye be looking for a fight. Of course, anime fans do enjoy a good fight, so there’s always room and opportunity for disagreement. But, come the end of the day, the conventional wisdom always prevails. Ten years from now, some poor soul will wander into an online anime discussion forum to profess his undying for Love Hina, and it’ll be the same ol’ story…
“Duh, Love Hina sucks SO MUCH.”
If you ask me, though, there’s no place in anime fandom for conventional wisdom. It’s antithetical to the individuality and creativity that makes the medium so special. But, more importantly, when it comes to anime, conventional wisdom is often wrong.
Consider Amaenaideyo!!, an oft maligned and forgotten show from not long ago. And when I say “not long ago”, I mean “not long ago”: the second season (yes, there was a second season) wrapped up only a month or so back. Now, all things considered, Amaenaideyo!! has all the elements of a successful anime series: cute girls, lots of fanservice, um… lots of fanservice. OK, it’s not Evangelion, but neither was Tenchi. Still, conventional wisdom suggests Amaenaideyo!! should have been well received.
But, in reality, Amaenaideyo!! was anything but well received - at least among American fans.
Why? Not enough boobies? Not enough cute girls? Not enough exclamation marks in the title? Too many boobies? Too many cute girls? Too many exclamation marks? Hell if I know. All I do know is that, within an hour of the first episode airing, the show was on the anime community’s collective shitlist, and has remained there ever since. Conventional wisdom strikes again!
It’s a shame, too, because Amaenaideyo!! is actually quite good. And, no doubt, the show has its fans: those who ignored the conventional wisdom and gave it a try.
All five of them.
So, allow me to use my position as anime blog elder to proselytize on behalf of the church of Amaenaideyo!! Do you like cute girls? Do you like boobies? Do you wish to attain enlightenment? If you answered yes, you should really give Amaenaideyo!! a try.
It’s better than Love Hina, at least.
I’ve seen Ameanadaieyo, with my roomies. It was good, and we all liked it a lot. We’re still waiting for the second season to be subbed, but I guess the DVDs to be ripped won’t be done until june. It’s a good show, funny, cute, boobs…
boobs…
The 13th ep was the best though, so perverse, so stupidly funny. Just fanservice, plain and simple, and it really reveled in that fact that it was.
That being said, Love Hina is one of my all time favorites, and forever will be. I’ve seen a LOT of anime, and it’s still in my top 5.
Amen is nowhere near Love Hina, nor do I see it as the same kind of show (mindless humor vs. comedic relationship) but they do share a few similarities. It was funny, and I’ve got it saved, but it is, to me, a funny, dumb show, maybe best used as a light pick-me-up, when I need that easy laugh.
I just don’t see it as comparable to Love Hina in any way, quality, plot, replay-ability, characters, emotional depth, etc.
I watched a couple episodes of Amaenaideyo but I found myself not getting anything out of it, so I stopped.
That’s good timing, I just started rewatching Love Hina the other night…
You have a good point–if you ONLY go off what people are saying on review sites and blogs and dismiss a series getting negative reviews without trying to watch at least one episode yourself, you’d miss out on a lot of good shows. Every once in a while, I’ll come across a series it seems 99% of the world hates or just couldn’t care less about, but I love it anyway (Pretty Sammy’s a good example, most fans today wouldn’t watch it just because it has relatively “old school” animation). Although I have to say…strictly in my own personal opinion, mind you…Amaenaideyo’s no Love Hina. I did watch the first couple episodes but the girl with eyebrows like Groucho Marx just ruined it for me. But I don’t doubt out of 1,000 people who didn’t watch it because of “bad press”, there are quite a few who’d really enjoy it if they took the time to try it anyway.
I think it’s because the original season sat unsubbed (past like 2) for about eight months or so. So people forget about it and move onto newer and better things. I see the series picking up more steam now that it has been subbed.
You rock so much sir, in fact, I think I shall look for enlightenment in a episode of Girls Bravo. I just wonder if my brain can survive 30 minutes of oxygen starvation.
Ameanadaieyo really isn’t a bad show. Its just not good. Its stupid, mindless and filled to bursting with fanservice, but its not BAD.
There is plenty of anime that is worse, and plenty that is better.
If your looking to waste a half hour, its a perfectly good show to do it with, and you’ll probably get a chuckle or two out of it along with a couple cute girls and the most panty shots this side of High School Girls.
Its no Shuffle or Canvas 2 but its most certainly not worthless.
Series I love, but some people seem to hate. Let me know if you are one of them.
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..) Chrno Crusade: “They changed the story! It sucks!”
Good grief. The amount of bile spat upon this series is incredible. When I finished watching it, I went online expecting to see rave reviews over it. What I got instead was tons of “It sucks” comments.
At one point, it made me wonder whether I was out of sync with the rest of the world. Upon some pondering, I came to the conclusion that the anime series suffered the “Purists Syndrome”.
Their mantra being, “If it does not follow the source material, it automatically sucks.”
It is an ugly syndrome. LotR had it too, if I were to give a contempory example.
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..) Strawberry Panic: “It’s a MariMite clone! Burn it! Burn!”
Oh go stuff a sock in it. If there is one other thing I dislike, other than “Purists Syndrome”, it is a fan’s need to complusively compare two shows. I am fairly tolerant in my viewing, and I prefer to evaluate each show on its’ own standing.
Other examples in which I rolled my eyes will be the RahXephon/NGEvangelion comparisons. For the record, I love both of them.
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..) Naruto: “Fillers are the spawn of Satan!”
Okay, this is a pretty touch-and-go affair. I readily admit that most of the fillers for Naruto are genuinely crap. However, some of the filler arcs are actually decent.
The problem is, these good arcs tend to be overwhelmingly overshadowed by the bad ones, which leads to the myopic view of some that ALL the fillers are crap.
Given a choice, obviously I would prefer to have no fillers, but I can live with them; since fillers can be gems and enhance the overall story experience. Rozen Maiden and the “Stairs” episode for example.
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..) Futakoi Alternative: “I don’t get it, therefore it must suck.”
Some reviewers were pretty severe in their ratings for FuAlt, since they were expecting cute-cute doormat girls, and not extreme out-of-this-world action. So entrenched are they in the original version of the Futakoi girls( based on the magazine, not the Fall series), that when something different is done with them, their minds cannot cope with it.
To make one example, if Ah! My Goddess was remade into a futuristic series where the Goddesses fought in mechas and Keichii is a mechanic on a space station. Sounds stupid at first right? But imagine if it was done well. Would you be willing to give it a try? Or outright dismiss at once?
Other real examples would be Fumoffu. It may surprise some, but there are negative reviews out there about Fumoffu, simply because the reviewer wanted mecha action, not school comedy.
Pre-conception bias if you will.
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..) Last Exile: “GONZO made it. Since GONZO sucks, it also sucks.”
GOOD GRAVY! Comments like these make me want to strangle the reviewer. Studio be damned! Review the show on its’ own standing! Studio bias is another of my pet peeves, and it really rankles me when people dismiss a show simply because of the studio that is making it.
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Well, that’s all the categories I can think of at the moment. :)
Cheers.
I managed to pick up the second season raws as it came out, and was hooked onto this show again, luckily at that time i noticed that there were now 2 groups subbing the first season (and at least one of them was using dvd sources which was a big plus).
This show isn’t very deep, but with Ikkou’s antics and cute girls, it became one of my guilty pleasures. I can just turn off my brain, laugh at the fun and amusing situations Ikkou gets into.
Luckily for me, even tho i read a lot of blogs consistently, i don’t judge shows based on other people’s opinions… That and i had a lot of free time to try out all the shows for myself.
Last Exile is a very flawed masterpiece. If I can find Amaenaideyo I’ll give it a shot.
Every anime fan knows a show or two which deserve more attention than they are apparently getting. Heck, I treasure a box of Dai Guard (has anyone here even heard about it?)
Love Hina did suck though. I made a very honest effort to stay with it, but the whole thing was just falling at the seams. Amenaiademo has to do way better than that before I would consider it. And the article did nothing to help (which is great, because it saves me money).
Jeff is just referring to the unncessary amount of hate that propagates without rhyme or reason. It’s hip to hate on Amaenaideyo!! Come on people spraed your hate around!
Amaenaideyo!! isn’t bad at all, it’s actually decent if not quite good. I’ve seen worse, much worse, and I’m sure everyone else probably has as well. It’s definitely not a show that suits everyone’s tastes so it’s better to check it out for yourself.
Also, from what I’ve seen of Amaenaideyo!! Katsu!! (the 2nd season), it’s been more enjoyable than the first season, the addition of Kazusano Kazuki spiced things up quite abit for the show.
I love Love Hina. It was my first manga. I bear no shame. :)
Love Hina rocks the first time you read it. The second time, not so much. Read it again and you’ll want to strangle yourself.
It’s not so much that Love Hina sucks - it does that to a certain degree - but it’s just that the story could’ve concluded SO much earlier… if Akamatsu Ken wasn’t an idiot and wrapped it up around volume 9 Love Hina would’ve been absolutely awesome-tastic.
Never watched the anime, the character designs just turned me off.
..) Strawberry Panic: “It’s a MariMite clone! Burn it! Burn!”
The worst part is, its not even really true.
Strawberry Panic reminds me much more of a bad, Shonen version of Onii-sama E.
>Fencedude
I agree on the Oniisama he comparison, but Strawberry Panic anime as shounen? It has pretty much nothing you can’t see in classic yuri manga (and by “yuri” I mean yuri, not dansei-muke “hawt-2-girl-action”). Hell, even Oniisama he is racier (Mariko pretty much giving Nanako a bath? or Nanako and the Phallic Objects?). The manga of SP is as male-targeted as it can get, but so far the only “shounen” thing in the anime was the maid uniforms (and it’s not like maid uniforms never appear in shoujo manga…).
You don’t often catch me lobbing stones at a series sight-unseen. Besides, I have a history of liking some odd shows (Popotan comes to mind). The trick is to tell the difference between someone who reviles a show for reasons of personal taste and someone who’s simply on a bandwagon. I suspect that a fair percentage of the folks who rip on Amaenaideyo!! haven’t actually tried to watch the thing, which is Jeff’s point I suppose, which makes me Master Of The Obvious.
I didn’t hate Chrno Crusade, and my lack of interest in it certainly has nothing to do with any comparison to the source material, since with only a couple of exceptions I’ve not read the manga for the anime I’ve watched. (Yes, I know. Only so many hours in the day, even for the unemployed guy.) I just couldn’t get into it, that’s all.
I may sit through Love Hina some day, but considering how much anime I am more interested in has piled up on my plate (again, so many hours…) that “some day” is probably a long, long way off. The same goes for Naruto, really.
Direct anime comparisons are only somewhat useful, and should always be taken with the proverbial grain of salt. Is RahXephon “just like” NGE? Of course not. One does inform the other, though, and the contrast is interesting in both directions. (For the record, I think both are very good shows that go completely to pieces at the end. Please, no, don’t waste your time trying to convince me that the end of RahXeph really makes sense. It probably does, but I’m just too dumb to figure it out, or some-such. *eyeroll*) As for Strawberry Panic, once they hit you over the head with the references and twists on MariMite, it seems content to meander in its own odd little direction. It hasn’t hooked me in completely, though, so I’m not sure I’ll be following it to see where it goes. Such is life.
Futakoi Alternative was a grand, wacky experiment. It fell to pieces, of course, but there were some truly outstanding bits along the way. Anime like that may not stand the test of time on their own merits, but they certainly push the medium in interesting ways. I’m sure we can agree (he said blithely) that anime can stand some pushing here and there.
As for Amaenaideyo!! itself… well, I have to get around to watching Shuffle! first… *cough, cough*
I believe conventional wisdom bats .500 for me; which, in information technology terms, means it is completely meaningless. There are some shows that just gets ignored for obscure reasons though. Here are list of some of the series I found ‘worthy’ against ‘mainstream’ opinion.
1. Rescue Wings: Nobody said a bad thing about it but not many watched. One of better Noto Mamiko performance, I guess. I wonder which character is the crowing achievement for Mamiko as of now.
2. Solty Rei: I really liked the subtle touch of hardcore Science fiction here, but people just ignored it on the name of Gonzo. Personally, I am having difficulty discerning the similarity between Gonzo shows other than, that they do many Sci-fi which needs lengthy dialogues from characters to fully establish the mood. What people really don’t get from Solty-Rei series is that it is a SF way of exploring various human relationships. It also has one of the most realistic depiction of how people have trouble coping with traumatic events, but the trauma doesn’t have to make you insane or change you into something you are not.
3. Koi Kaze: This show is so reviled in Korea, that many anime site erases any mention of it. The first episode was one of best I have seen of two people getting to understand each other emotionally. It was also best case of how adding a line here and there, with superb voice acting can change a mediocre manga into something that I dare call highly artistic, without any fancy visual elements. The emotional stress many character endures as well as final ‘fall from grace’ with their eyes wide open to possibility of ‘hell on Earth’ really makes this series something to think about in many ways, philosophically and THEOLOGICALLY.
4. Saiunkoku Monogatari: people dismiss this, or is attracted to this, only as Pretty Boy Harem show for girls. The reality is this show is about struggle someone from underprivilaged class to overcome prejudices and oppositions to fulfill her dream of helping people to her full potential. Although Ko Shurei is from powerful family, her economic reality and mere fact of she being a woman stands in way of becoming all she could be, a competent, well meaning high ranking government official. The question of gender equality and prejudices is something many countries, especailly the far eastern countries are struggling with, right now. They need more show like this to educate people on how damaging such class restrictions can be and how they still have many prejudice against people of other sex, race, or regional ties.
5. Castle in the sky Laputa: Once, it was the crown achievement of Japanese animation, but it is largely ignored now. I still feel reinvigorated watching the clouds and adventures of the main characters, and feeling of awe is still there when I view the crystals of flying stones in underground cavern. This is a show that I watch so often, again and again, so much that it can’t be mere nostalgia that makes me do this.
6. Megazone 23 Part I and II, but not III: Very important anime series that people know too little.
7. Umi ga Kikoeru ( I can hear the sea ): Shameless plug for the master of this website.
Real #7. Monster: Too scary. Its ending is feels bit weak, though. Needed better music.
Some shows I don’t like despite it being very widely known.
1. Evangellion: I was amazed how so-called devout christians heaped praises on the heretical show ( heretical in view of tradiational christian doctrines ). I thought this series tried too much to appear fancy and profound, although I found most of the symbolisms hollow, disturbing, and misrepresented. The flow of the series gets constantly interrupted by unneccessary violence, fan service, and exaggerations. For someone who has read many classic literatures and various mythologies, even the shock value wasn’t there. I believe, HOWEVER, that those who weren’t prepared to see Evangellion would have been totally overwhelmed by almost every aspects in this show. To many, it was first time encountering such heretical claim ( Urutsuki Douji(?) and many others did this much earlier and in much more shocking fashion ), gore ( Fist of North Star movie prepared me for this ), music ( I used to tutor music majors on subject of music history ), visual effects ( Akira and Stop Construction Order, anyone? ), and symbolism ( I used to give regularly scheduled short informational talks on subject of diversity of religion during 1st and 2nd century A.D to my church choir members . Mention any significance of Evangellion series, and I can probably find earlier or better examples of that aspect. In spite of all this, I grudgingly have to admit that this is the most influential anime series, right now.
2. Shuffle: Couldn’t make it through the fan services and baseless feeling of exploitation of girls.
3. Canvas: The series doesn’t exist, Do you hear? wait. I am mentioning this series too much, already.
Real #3. Kimagure Orange Road: I just despise the spineless main character, or why Hikaru was allowed to hold on for such a long time. Only in its first OVA did they realize how harmful this could be to Hikaru. They milked on this cash cow too long.
4. Da Capo: See #2
5. magikano: Not having good balance of male and female character is an instant turn-off for me.
6. Naruto: This is like Dragonball. basically same thing over and over and over again.
7. Hellsing: Offensive in many levels.
I need to add this disclaimer. There were many old shows that I dislike, but did not mention for not many people knows of it now. There are many recent shows I like but didn’t mention, for they are very popular. Hades Project Zeoraimer is one of shows I mention as starting point of many evils of current anime, but didn’t feel the need to add to the list for not many people knows of it. Utawarerumono has been a pleasant surprise to me, but many people likes them already. My wife raises interesting point. Why are there so many people literally worshipping Suzumiya Haruhi? She believes that the real reason why the novel won awards and the anime became popular is because of Kyon’s monologues. The editors specifically mentioned the first person narrative style as one of main reason for this novel winning the award, so perhaps, are we being blinded by the sight of the SOS Dancing to miss the real reasons for series’s success?
http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume1_Editor’s_Notes
wontaek
My wife raises interesting point. Why are there so many people literally worshipping Suzumiya Haruhi? She believes that the real reason why the novel won awards and the anime became popular is because of Kyon’s monologues. The editors specifically mentioned the first person narrative style as one of main reason for this novel winning the award, so perhaps, are we being blinded by the sight of the SOS Dancing to miss the real reasons for series’s success?
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People do also ‘worship’ SHaruhi due to Kyon, and in character popularity polls, Kyon is without doubt, always in the Top3.
However, whether or not he is the main reason is up for debate. :) If you read most of the reviews on SHaruhi, ESPECIALLY the episodic reviews for the FIRST episode of SHaruhi, you will find that most reviewers were hooked by Kyon’s narrative.
Hale, in most “Best SHaruhi’s Quotes” threads, Kyon completely dominates.
So yes, Kyon did play a big role in promoting SHaruhi’s success, but I dare say that he is not the only reason. :)
In my opinion, SHaruhi is a package deal. It has character spunk, it has a decent OP and an addictive ED. It never takes itself too seriously, despite the themes behind it. It has good animation. Etc… Above all, it pokes fun at the audience. It dares you to take it seriously.
:)
I almost never read reviews before watching the first episode of a new show. So I think I’m fairly unencumbered by “conventional wisdom” as far as series ratings go. Yet I often arrive at the same conclusions (Love Hina sucks).
Maybe the problem lies with the ways we anticipate how a show will turn out. Lots of bad shows had too much fanservice, so we’re inclined to think that Amaenaideyo will be bad. A studio can put a good show at risk by adding some ingredient fans have learned to fear (Skane’s comment has examples). I hope this doesn’t punish innovation.
I thought Love Hina was regarded as a classic of its kind. I saw a few episodes and thought it childish and unfunny. I saw two episodes of Amenaideyo and thought the same, with no idea what other people were thinking. If you like them, fine, but there’s no need to invent a conventional wisdom to oppose — except to make an interesting and provocative post, which you did.
I do think that it’s a problem we say “such-and-such a show is great,” rather than “I like such-and-such a show.” Tastes differ widely. I don’t much enjoy Utawarerumono, although it’s okay. But Simoun may end up in my all-time top ten. I think I could justify my admiration of Simoun, but it wouldn’t make other people like it as much as I do. People who didn’t enjoy the wonderful romantic angst of the middle episodes of Futakoi Alternative, wouldn’t enjoy the similar romantic angst in Simoun. Although I’m not sure why they can’t see what great SF it is.
I’m sure Kyon’s monologues are part of the appeal of SHnY, but they can’t be the key, since I barely understood them when I saw the first episode raw (a few hours after it aired), and yet I posted comments praising the episode to the skies, calling it one of the funniest anime episodes I’d ever seen.
Anyway, my main objection to your post is that it would mean I have to (re-)watch even more anime, and I watch too much already, lol.
I happen to be one of the few *burn me at the stake* who likes this series. It is not deep but still provides 30 minutes of fun filled entertainment with Ikkou’s strong libido always getting the best of him.
but Strawberry Panic anime as shounen? It has pretty much nothing you can’t see in classic yuri manga (and by “yuri” I mean yuri, not dansei-muke “hawt-2-girl-action”).
Its serialized in Dengeki G’s Magazine.
The wonderful publication wich brought us “Sister Princess” and “Futakoi”
So yes, its shounen.
I saw a few episodes and thought it childish and unfunny. I saw two episodes of Amenaideyo and thought the same
And therein lies the problem.
I watched the first two episodes of School Rumble, said “This is lame” and abandoned it. Three months ago, after trashing it for a while, I succumbed to what I thought was hype, and watched a few more episodes.
I was completely and totally wrong about School Rumble and it has become one of my favorites.
I’ve done the exact same thing with Inukami, Love Hina, Mushishi, Mai HiME, Aishiteru ze Baby, Futakoi Alternative, Kaleido Star, and many others.
I’ve come to realize that it often takes time to appreciate the plot of a lot of these shows. Unlike most North American TV, anime shows are usually serial in format rather than the single episode resolution you get in North American TV. With a few exceptions, they often take a while to get into, but when you do it’s well worth it.
I always thought it was interesting that Majikano was able to make a 360 reversal from bad to good in the “knowledgable” anime community. Sometimes it does seem like everyone’s a bunch of headless chickens following the collective leader (okay, so I dunno how good headless chickens are at following a leader, but…).
And for the record, I love Love Hina! It was like, the first anime I ever watched, so it’s got a special place in my heart.
You all wrote much will read later. I do very much agree with you on that “general opinon” thing and that if you even mention something good about the show they completely dismiss you as a complete idiot who does not know anything about anime. I also agree that the anime community does like a good battle of the words on the web, but so do almost every fandom. It seems like every where I go on the net I’m greeted by those who want to start up a debate. I come online to get away from the real life stuff one goes through only to get into more.
Anyways, one of the first anime series I saw was Inuyasha. Now it’s considered the “worst animes evar” by many out there. What’s sad is that I think those people who say things like that are just imitating the so-called elitist who are the one’s in the first place who say “I don’t watch those trendy anime of the year. Live on the old-school”. So now FMA and Naruto are considered to not be good. Yet, of course many are being brought into the fandom by these same series. Now I do wnot watch Inuyasha like I used to, but I still think it’s a good series.
A fandom I love is Saiyuki and it’s also considered horrible and I must agree that the anime is by the first series of the manga is very good. I do not think there is one anime out there that is perfect and at the same time be loved by everyone. There is such a large variety of people out there that is not ever going to occur.
Lots of good comments… obviously, I can’t respond to everyone. Still, let me note a few things…
Yes, this post is intentionally provocative. If that’s what it takes to get people to think seriously about the subject, so be it. As I wrote, there’s always room for disagreement when it comes to “conventional wisdom”, but, no matter how vocal that disagreement, it’s difficult to get anime fans to consider viewpoints that fly in the face of general opinion. As for why this sort of groupthink so often prevails within the anime community… well, that’s another post for another day.
And, regarding Love Hina: my comparison with Amaenaideyo was more rhetoric than anything else. I’m actually quite fond of Love Hina, flawed as it may be. As for which show is the “better” of the two, I can’t say. Obviously, with Amaenaideyo being so fresh on my mind and Love Hina so distant, I don’t know if I can make a valid comparison. Or, for that matter, I don’t know if there’s much point in trying to make a comparison.
Eh, I can usually go on long rants about it, but in short: Love Hina manga is great, #1 all time on my list, and has a special place on my heart. Love Hina anime went into the toilet after a couple of episodes. The character designs were just… so atrocious. I really couldn’t pay attention because the character designs made me want to strangle myself. And yeah, I usually get hell for saying I like it.
“Duh, Love Hina [animated series] sucks SO MUCH.”
2 worst manga to anime translations I have ever seen: H2 and Lament of the Lamb
2 manga to anime translations that most improved on the original material: Koi Kaze and Kimagure Orange Road ( for having the guts to come out with OVA series that make sense and explore the serious side of relationships protrayed in the manga, as well as making Madoka much more prettier and thus popular )
I like to mention that you should not get too attached to categorizing things by shounen and shoujou. All magazines have some series that is either on the boundary of definitions or cross over into other categories in order to hook some new viewers. In Korea, there was about 3-5 year window when only manwha ( manga ) megazine for 15 year old was the one done by group of female manwha artists, who started drawing things in mutual interests like historical sagas and adventure types. A good example is twelve kingdoms; how will you categorize it as boy’s or girl’s series? Legend of Galactic Heroes had many female fans just smittened with Rheinhardt’s character design; girl’s military epic? Five Star Stories’s character design is a dead ringer for a popular Korean Female Manwha artist, Hwang, Mina; male Sci-fi epic based on character design intended for female viewers?
Truth is that most anime and manga have good degree of complexities within it, but most people don’t view them with intent to analyze them in depth, thus missing much of gems that could be unearthed. Many take some time and dedication to appreciate them fully, something most of us have in short supply, so that I believe is why we have something called conventional wisdom which is very loosely founded on first impression of first episode. I believe the best use for conventional wisdom is to check whether you have given up on a show too hastely, or is too fond of show that may not be worthy of your devotion. I gave Shuffle a second chance, based on all I hear from others, and have given up on it again. I had bad first impression of ‘Honey and Clover’ manga, but gave it another chance after hearing more rave reviews, and it now is one of my favorite series. I still believe that most people got duped on various gimmicks by makers of Evangellion; that series just got lucky as it came out just when Japanese anime makers realized that Korean government has lowered the barriers to importing new anime series( Korea still is the #1 importer of Japanese anime ), so NGE just happens to be one of the first series that was aggresively marketed abroad. ( I like to submit to the evidence that there is a porno version of the series made mostly be the same anime team. )
There is no such thing called conventional wisdom. Anime is a media, not a genre and there is huge differences in taste in anime.
The fact that anime watchers are not alike is self evident, but often forgotten. A show like Fruit Basket and Gaogaigar have completely different appeal and is designed for largely non-overlapping audiences. Most of the time anime watchers pick genres that suits them and reviews only that, but sometimes certain shows “look like something but is something else entirely” and grabs outside their intended audience resulting in mismatched reviews. You know this is the case when people can love or hate a show for the exact same reason. (eg. melodrama in KGNE, hotblooded-silliness in giant mecha anime)
Only people that have been hanging out at one and one place for too long think that there is there is this misguided conventional wisdom. Truth to be told, most communities (online or otherwise), tend get somewhat homogeneous and many voices “out there” are simply not heard.
If you goto a naruto/bleach board and preach the wonders of Ichigo Mashimaro, Laumne and Rozen Maiden, or going to moe-type-image board and talk about naruto can only result in disagreement if not flame wars.
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Not only that people are different, but people change over time when it comes to anime as well. A few years ago I’d be digging through Yu Yu Hakusho but nowadays I’d find a teenage fighting shounen unwatchable no matter how the characters and the sistuation is set up. The genre simply have no grip on me. I enjoyed love hina (manga) back when it was new but nowadays I have a huge selection of bishoujo anime it just don’t appeal as much.
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The key to public opinion is to realize its context. Like minded people will have like minded opinions, however there are very few such people out there as people have different experiences in real life or anime, and different personality and everything.
“Conventional” wisdom isn’t, it is an opinion, and following it blinding without knowing the context of their creation is one’s own fault.
*goes to wait for Haruhi*
I think conventional wisdom still applies, in full force. But what makes conventional wisdom sing is not trite and, heh, foolish statements like “Love Hina Suxorz.” It’s all right for JAL to raise a ruckus at its expense but I’d take up the contrary point just because no one has so far :p
1. Conventional wisdom says an anime with good production value tend to do well. Look at every Miyazaki film, for example. Steamboy and GITS:Innocence are the exceptions rather than the norm. Now dare I say the contrapositive is just as true: unpopular, forgettable shows tend to have crap production value. The only thing in my mind that goes against that at the moment is Air Master and Cyber Team in Akihabara, but I’m sure some of you can conjure other terrible shows that you liked (D-Eve? Magic Knight Rayearth? Trigun?). Still, generally crap production value = crap show. I think Amaenaideyo!! is a crap value production, and it’s to no surprise that few people took attention to it.
2. Conventional wisdom says direction is important. I think Amaenaideyo!! isn’t crap on this area but it is rather weak compared to even, say, Girls Bravo or DearS. And for most people those two shows are hardly at the forefront of directoral excellence.
3. Conventional wisdom says Love Hina is a good show. Seriously, trashing Love Hina is almost like dissing your ex. If you were like me you were pretty hooked on to it for at least a short period of time, and back then IIRC there were quite a few people way, way worse off than I am. Where have these people gone? For that matter Love Hina is way better than Amaenaideyo!! However…
4. Conventional wisdom says quit while you are ahead. Love Hina milked its fans until Kingdom Come. It left a bad aftertaste. For me it’s so bad I didn’t even want to /touch/ anything that reminded me of it. I also get the feeling that was the case for a significant amount of people–the harem anime fallouts.
5. Conventional wisdom says Jeff Lawson is a troll. o/
I think somone touched on this, but IMO, how you react to an anime or manga depends on your exposure to other anime or manga.
For example, I give you the case of myself, my boyfriend, and Love Hina. Both of us stumbled onto the series early on in our anime fanness, but I came into it through the anime, and he through the manga. When I saw it, I loved it because it was unlike anything I’d seen before, as my anime experience up until then had been of the Pokemon/Digimon/Slayers/3 eps of Trigun variety, that is to say, fantasy. I hadn’t seen any anime that depicted ordinary people living ordinary lives, and I thought it was wonderful. I watched the whole series and the two specials fansubbed (on VHS, no less), so I was overjoyed when the manga came over. But when I actually read it, I didn’t like it, since it was so different from the anime. I bought two volumes and quit.
My boyfriend, on the other hand, found the manga at his local library and read the whole series. I don’t know whether it was the same case as the anime was for me (i.e. like nothing he’d read before), but he fell in love. However, when I lent him my DVDs of the series, he didn’t like it, since it was so different from the manga (and had a rotten dub, I do admit). He watched two volumes and quit.
Looking back, I don’t think that proved my point at all. So let me just add this: when Love Hina finally came out in the states, I was *so* pissed when I kept reading reviews saying basically, “If you’ve seen Ranma 1/2 and Tenchi Muyo, you’ve seen Love Hina. Skip it.” Later in life, after I had seen more series, I understood what they were saying, but back then, when I hadn’t seen those other series, I hated the reviewers for dismissing the series I loved so lightly. And part of me still does, though I don’t really like Love Hina that much anymore (except for Kentaro, but that’s neither here nor there).
Conventional wisdom says Jeff Lawson is a troll.
Touche!
I’m always one of those people who are like ” the firstx episodes of a series does not mean the entire anime will be like that”, since in most cases, it seems to turn out that way. But that’s beside the point. “Mob mentality” is strong in many places and when a couple of “influential” people say an opinion on one show, it’s very easy to see other people swarm to that opinion. It reminds me of a recent ANN review on the stuff for this season, and on the comments responding to that article, there were some people who said something along the lines of “based on this one reviewer’s opinion, I’ll pick up/drop this show”. That sort of thing always pisses me off, though it’s just one example.
On a side note, I loved the Yokohama Shopping Log OVAs, though it’s hard for me to find other people that do. Just because it makes you fall asleep doesn’t mean it’s bad. :P
Yes, there are other Dai Guard fans out there, though I have to admit you’re the first other one I’ve found…
Hey, it was a fun series. And yes, I too own and treasure the box.
For that matter, anyone fond of Figure 17?
It is in my not-so-humble opinion that most reviewers are crap.
General sweeping statement? Maybe, but allow me to explain my point of view.
After watching an anime series/episode, I enjoy reading up the subsequent reviews in order to get a different point of view, as seen by other people.
However, most people tend to fall into the trap of reviewing with a negative bias in mind. It is so common for people to see only the bad( read: whine) and forget about mentioning the good.
Additionally, as humans are wont to do, the more anime they watch, the more jaded they become. Instead of reviewing a new anime series on a fresh clean slate, they start to compare it to past experiences. The pre-conception bias I mentioned about.
Down a shot of Vodka if you have read any of the following statements in more than 10 blogs. One shot each. Make it Ginger Beer if you are underaged or a teetotaller.
..) “Another harem series…”
..) “Mecha show again…”
..) “Unlike the 90s…”
..) “GONZO strikes again…”
..) “A Shinji clone…”
..) “Different from the manga…”
..) Etc…
Of course, it is highly unrealistic for me to expect anyone to purge themselves of ALL bias, but in most cases, the reviewer do not seem to care and make no attempt to review the show in a fair and balanced manner.
It is one thing to say, “I do not like this show,” and quite another to say, “This show is not likeable”. The first is an expression of personal opinion, the latter a declaration.
Furthermore, most reviewers do not bother to back up their opinions with any sort of substantial evidence. The WHY do they feel that way.
I am not expecting everybody to agree with my point of view on anime( since I also dislike some anime that seems to be widely popular), but I would very much prefer it if they could explain to me why they disagree. If they cannot, then where is the justification for their review in the first place?!
When I want to seriously review an anime, I tend to break it down into many parts. The main two being Premise and Immersion. Premise is further broken down into “Characters” and “Storyline”, while Immersion is broken down into “Art”, “VA”, and “BGM”.
Characters:
..) Development?
..) Consistency?
..) Relevance?
Storyline:
..) Theme?
..) Is it meant to be coherent?
..) Is it meant to be Episodic?
..) Focused?
..) Continuity?
Art:
..) Suited to the Premise?
VA:
..) In sync with the characters?
..) Believable?
BGM:
..) Suited to the Premise?
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In general, when I review an anime, I review it as though it was the first ever anime I watched.
If there are parts I did not like, I will take some effort to explain why.
Cheers.
I wonder how much of negativity to a series is generated by someone with connection to a rival company? I do know that some of positive reviews out there makes me wonder if that reviewer received any monetary compensation. I doubt such a case exist in English anime blogs, but I have seen such biased reviews in Korean by some posters who rave about certain series for about a week or so and then disappears. Sadly, majority of people act like sheep: they inevitably succumb to the few who barks loud in the beginning. The sad state of Korean education makes people very afraid to independently make up their own mind about the matter instead of blindly following a group’s opinion.
Yes, there are other Dai Guard fans out there, though I have to admit you’re the first other one I’ve found…
Make that two actually. I have the Perfect Collection myself, and it was a fun show. :3
In my opinion (heh) liking or disliking an anime is much a matter of personal taste, as well as of age and sometines gender. Granted, there are shows that are branded ‘poor’ or ’shitty’ by large majority of anime fans, but I’m sure even those have their hardcore fans. I’ve yet to hear of a show that is universally reviled by all and everyone.
I’ve seen Love Hina. I regret the time I wasted on this show. I wouldn’t go as far as call the show crap but it certainly was boring and predictable, following the usual harem anime formula. I generally try to watch shows all the way to the end unless I deem the exceptionally bad. LH wasn’t quite that bad but I certainly wouldn’t recommend it to anyone with tastes similar to mine.
I saw only one episode of Amenaideyo and in flash judgement deemed it to be on par with LH, only perhaps with the fanservice button turned one notch higher. Because at the time I had enough shows to watch I never even bothered to check out if secodn episode was subbed. Having gleaned some more info from elsewhere, I am not feeling like revisiting the show ever, either.
I wouldn’t have ever watched Shuffle either, if not for the ‘Psycho Kaede’ hooplah on 4chan around the time. So, like many others, I checked it out from episode 19 onwards. I was amused by Kaede’s psychotic fit, but the rest felt like a very generic harem show again… so I never checked the last few episodes.
I’m not sure where all this Gonzo bashing comes from… I always thought Lasx Exile was a brilliant show. One other Gonzo that immediately jumps to mind though, Kiddy Grade, I never go very far into; episode 6-7 or so. Like I said earlier, I try to finish shows I’ve started, but for some reason KG completely flew below my radar so I even forgot to check for new episodes. Another recent Gonzo show, Solty Rei, started pretty weak but got better later on. i’ve finished the show and gave it an ‘ok’ rating but I don’t feel it was interesting enough to ever watch it again. I’m bit picky about what I save and Solty certainly didn’t make the cut.
I liked Magikano from the start. It took me a while to ‘get it’ but then I realized it was a comedy show first and foremost, parodying many of the established harm cliches. I also recommend it for the stellar job the voiceactors do. The only letdown is the weeeeak final (#13) episode where they attempt to insert some drama and fail terribly.
Someone mentioned Strawberry Panic in the earlier posts. I’m finding the show a little bit boring. It doesn’t help that I find the lead girl’s voice annoying. Now, it is jsut the yuri moments that keep me watching this… and on that record, the manga is lot better on that department. Though it is not very fair to compare an anime to a manga on pacing, I feel the anime version is dragging its feet while the manga has a better pace.
Generally, I don’t attempt to dissect the reasons why I liked or disliked - or felt indifferent to - a certain show. It just goes to the level of ‘this gave me a good feeling, I must see more’ or ‘man this is terrible’ or ‘ho-hum, whatever are they trying here’. If someone asks me for recommendations, I answer with the question ‘what type of shows are you looking for’ and go on from there. Then I might attempt to explain why I feel a certain show is good, or why I think they may like it while I did not.
I’d write more, but I need to go back to my Harushi and Higurashi… ^__^
Conventional female wisdom says Jeff’s a sexy beast!
Jeff is very, very sexy. I ran into Seizo today and he has confirmed that as well. Plus that back when he is in Japan he was a hit with his female coworkers (hearsay?)
I think he should start taking pictures of himself–ultimately conventional wisdom says all reviewers do is giving something for us to talk about!
I ran into Seizo today and he has confirmed that as well.
That’s good to know. I wonder if he’ll hook me up with his sister?
Plus that back when he is in Japan he was a hit with his female coworkers.
I suppose. Until they find this place, at least. Perhaps that’s why I haven’t gotten any e-mails lately…
The first time I remember watching the first 4 eps of Love Hina, it was at Otakon 2000. I knew nothing about it and since I wasn’t doing anything at that time, I figured I’d go check it out. That was probably the only 2 hours of Otakon I remember, because it was probably the most hilarious, yet intriguing show I had watched at that point. It left such an impression on me that I went to work on Monday and surfed for info on the show all day. My coworker was bored that day, so he decided to help me out, and it was at that point at which we found some free servers had the 10 more eps available … Download Accelerator … man, those were memories.
Nowadays, I can barely remember what shows I’ve watched the last years because none of them can leave an impression that Love Hina did. Love Hina was both fresh and different. It definitely took the harem anime to a new level But like Star Wars, it introduced a trend where people were more interested in the bottom line, so the shows now are just way too derivative. I’m at a point where I don’t feel like it’s worth the effort to check out a new show just because it seems like a harem.
For me, Love Hina was like getting my first job. It was an exciting time, because I didn’t know what to expect. Now I am at a better job, but the thrill of it, even when starting this one, never hit the level of starting my first job because any kinda work in my field just seems too familiar.
Love Hina? Conventional Wisdom that it sucks? Before I had any anime circle of friends, I read the manga. It was only exciting for 5 or so volumes. I watched the anime. Horrendous OP with more bull than the manga. When many people say it sucks, a proportion might think it sucks because “my group of friends think it sucks”. But not ALL people are like that. When I say it sucks, it sucks for a reason. You might have enjoyed it, but I certainly didn’t, and I didn’t bother to hide the fact I hated it just because there were tonnes of Love Hina manga fans at that time.
But of course it all becomes personal preference. Just like how I still enjoy Doraemon even to this day while anime noobs think it sucks.
My whole introdution into anime consisted Toonami (before adult swim), adult swim, and me snooping around on winamp TV, and found a stream for Love Hina. I was pretty biased against anime because my circle of friends thought it wasnt cool, and i just agreed. But anyways, i was bored one night, and started watching. I guess it was about halfway through the series, at one of the extremely slapstick moments, and i just laughed. and laughed. So i kept watching. Over the next few days, i watched the entire thing. lo and behold, i enjoyed it. So i figured “What if i can find some of the shows ive seen an episode or two of on TV, but get it on the comp. So i watched Cowboy Bebop and outlaw star. I was impressed, and i took a dive into google and left messages on a few major anime
websites, asking for recommendations on “must see” type animes.
Over the next few months i picked up many series, big name and small… like FMA, FMP, Elfen Lied, NGE, blue gender, then i followed my Love Hina roots and dived into comedy type series. Most recently, ive even taken a liking to more romance type animes. Of course, many of the things that i saw and liked, i later found out were considered “bad” by general convention. Am I the only guy in the world who enjoyed FMP:TSR? What about Air? Maburaho? Witch Hunter Robin? I dont think so.
On the contrary, many of the things that are considered “good” series, i just deleted and said “maybe ill finish it later”. I couldnt stand School Rumble, or Hellsing, or Girls Bravo.
And my quick cheap-shot against manga obsessed viewers… I saw GANTZ on a friend’s recommendation, and I personally believe its probably the best series ive ever seen. From the “Pulp Fiction”-esque plot, the hilariously funny things kei does to embarass himself, and that damn dog, I love it. I went so far as to transcend my normal “manga sucks” mindset to obtain 15 volumes of translated GANTZ manga. After reading it, i think the manga is shallow, and more of a general outline of what, in my opinion, should be a second season or some sort of continuation of GANTZ. If you watch the anime, read the manga second. If you havent done either, anime first. Why hasnt this turned into one of those cash-cow series, and the producers make dozens and dozens of episodes? Im sure it would lose some of the finalized, perfected high quality gloss that made me fall in love with it, but at least i would be able to satiate my thoughts of “what happens next?” and “what else?”.
Love Hina is my absolute favorite anime of all time , even higher than Suzumiya Haruhi…. I’ve seen anime come and go, but i can always go back and watch Love Hina ..over and over and it never gets tiring, it is always comforting….. it is like the standard in which I judge all other shows…. it’s not the best at anything, but it is still the best.
I like love hina wery much…it’s cool and some time’s funny…anime’s…
From:Chitzu the young leader!!!