Kanon WIN! Haruhi LOSE! Oh noes!
Seriously, folks…
Planning committees are generally responsible for determining episode count, long before a show goes into production. Obviously, available resources factor heavily into that determination, but if the committee has a target episode count, it can always work to procure the resources necessary to make it happen. Animation studios don’t fund themselves from within; the funding for a project comes from outside sources. Ultimately, those sources play an important role in the planning process. They’re footing the bill, after all.
Of course, outside involvement doesn’t cease once a show enters production. If it were up to a single animation studio alone to produce an entire show, start to finish, we’d only see a few new shows each year. Animation studios simply don’t have the manpower or talent necessary to do anything and everything under the sun. So, what’s a studio to do? Outsource, that’s what. Studios rarely do their own in-between animation; typically, the work is contracted out to “sweatshop” studios overseas or large domestic studios such as GAINAX or Production I.G. In fact, some studios exist solely to do in-between work for “marquee” studios. In the case of The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi, in-between work is being handled by Ani Village, a Korean studio.
Clearly, “marquee” studios can (and often do) work on more than one show at the same time. For example, Madhouse is juggling five shows at the moment: Nana, Black Lagoon, Kiba, Yume Tsukai, and Strawberry Panic - and that’s not even counting the shows they may be doing in-between work for. Not all of these shows receive the same priority, however. Nana may be Madhouse through-and-through, but watch the ending credits for Strawberry Panic, and you’ll see a string of Korean names. (For the record, even Nana is being outsourced in part to DR Movie, yet another Korean studio)
Kyoto Animation is no Madhouse, of course. They’re nowhere near as large, nor are they anywhere near as established in the industry. Essentially, they’re a “support” studio that only recently moved up to the big leagues. Even though they’ve been around since 1981, they’re still the new kid on the block.
Now, it’s no secret that Kyoto Animation made a name for itself with its work on Air. And, it’s no secret that the companies involved in the production of that particular show, including Visual Art’s/Key, have made a bundle of money. So, it should come as no surprise that Visual Art’s/Key would choose Kyoto to animate a remake of Kanon. And it should come as no surprise that Kyoto jumped at the opportunity. Kanon is a very, very big deal, after all.
The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi, however? Not a very big deal, I’m sorry to say. But, before crying “Ayu killed Haruhi!,” consider that the episode count for Haruhi was likely decided before the planning process for Kanon even got underway. And, even then, Haruhi doesn’t strike me as the sort of show that would run for 24-26 episodes. Sure, enough original material exists for that number of episodes, but if every show adapted from a popular manga or novel series was animated to its full potential, 100+ episode counts would be commonplace. Compression is a big part of adaptation, and history has shown that you can do a lot with a mere 13 episodes, especially if you’re working with an open-ended story.
Of course, Haruhi sports an odd episode count at fourteen. Granted, odd episode counts seem to be all the rage these days (along with special DVD episodes), but is fourteen really as strange a number as it seems? If you subscribe to the idea that the Kanon remake trampled all over Haruhi, you have to assume 14 = 24-10. But doesn’t 14 = 13+1 make more sense? Especially when the first episode of the show was, essentially, a gag episode?
In other words, fret not fellow Haruhi fans: the show isn’t being cut short. We’re getting an extra episode. And a Kanon remake, to boot! I sure as hell won’t complain.
Let’s see what happens after episode 3. Haruhi is attracting many attention in Korea as well and if episode 3 can successfully build on what we had on ep. 2, there is going to be a huge mobilization of ‘??’ ( pronounced Pe-In , which is Korean version of Otaku ) in support of Haruhi. The reason I am keeping notice of Haruhi is two fold.
1. Not many people expected what they saw and heard in ep. 2.
2. This is one of few series that has attracted 1st tier attentions simultaneously in Korea and English speaking audience. Usually, the difference in culture and taste makes what is 1st tier in one group to be 2nd or 3rd tier in other. ( disclaimer: I am using 5 tier system here where 5th is more than 1 % of anime audience follows it actively, 4th is 4 %, 3rd is 9 %, 2nd is 16 %, and 1st is 25 %. Of course there is 0th tier of 36 %, but in Korea, so many choices are available to Anime followers that this is very rarely reached )
Even though I had considered you a broken record and you probably consider me just another blind troll, even I have to give you mad props for coming out and saying what needed to be said. I frankly was getting a little annoyed by Jason’s ‘Oh woe is Haruhi’ bit that he has been using whenever he felt like bashing Kanon as of late.
Hooray for 13 1 logic! There have been many 12 or 13 episode series that have been top-notch over the years.
Besides which, while I think that Suzumiya is an entertaining show, it’s far from the animessiah.
Hmm… coming to think about, yeah, Haruhi would fit the 13 episode format pretty well, as it is essentially a slice-of-life/school comedy/romance(?) series. Putting it for a 24 episode format would most probably make it draggy and boring at certain parts, but I can’t read the original source material to save my life, so I can’t say much about the potential of the series to be long,
I’m just hoping that it won’t be like Shana, and given the speed treatment, which is quite eveident based on the shelf life of the villains. Haruhi isn’t that kind of show though, and in 13 episodes, as long as character development is done well, I won’t have qualms about it being a 13-episoder.
Besides, if it proves to be commercial success, we can always campaign for a second season :P. I do hope the Kanon remake would be good. Ayu is also pretty cute ;).
Because I use translation software, a meaning may not come.
The staff of Suzumiya Haruhi does not have a name of Ani Village
Though there was not it for 2 episodes that I made a mistake in that I did not breathe, there was it for one episode
????? : If any know the English name for this series, please tell me.
But what about the fillers!!!
Just to repeat what was said (elsewhere), episode 0 was the 1. You’re suppose to go back and REWATCH The Adventure of Mikuru Asahina during the course of the series as it will reveal more new and interesting things about the SOS-dan members.
And honestly, what’s wrong with 13-eps shows? Isn’t that THE trend right now? Unless you’re a Sony or a Bandai you’re not going to make much anything longer…
The only thing that would actually like worry me would be trying to cram 6 books into 13 episodes. I don’t really know why they would try to cram that much in, both in terms of trying to adapt the source material and in the fact that it reduces the amount of material that they can draw from for future seasons, should the show generate sufficient interest. I say “should it generate sufficient interest” because I’d read that the response on 2ch was very mixed, with a lot of people being like ZOMG and a lot of people going “So basically, this is an inside joke that I’m not a part of?”.
That said, lol sad girl in snow lol
It’s the first episode, or episode 0 as they call it.
Without any prior information on what the series is about, one can hardly be blamed for recoiling in horror. I myself wanted to claw my eyes out and stab my ears, when I was watching certains parts of the episode. My sole motivation to watch it to the end being that I knew in advance what the episode was about( thanks to Random Curiosity).
Had I known nothing about the episode, it would have ended up in the recycle bin, and a great tragedy that would have been.
As it is, I was able to enjoy the episode as a whole, but I cannot deny that certain segments still make me squirm. If I wanted to recommend this series to any of my friends, I would tell them to watch the second episode first, before watching the first.
This is to cover my ass too, in case misunderstandings occur and they try to murder me for making them watch crap.
Many of the “Huh?” people are people who have only seen the first episode. They are most likely non-readers of the print version, and their confusion is very understandable. Give time for the second episode to spread around.
Cheers.
Word.
Really, though, I honestly couldn’t see them being able to stretch the show out to more than 14 episodes and still make it feel fresh anyway. The execution may be (very) superior here, but the material isn’t particularly anything amazingly original. I’m sure we’ve all seen longer running shows similar in nature which have completely fallen completely flat after a fantastic opening run.
Fact: we don’t need more Kanon. It has already be done, and it wasn’t even original or great the first time. What we need is more Haruhi, or at least more shows like Haruhi, inspired and brillant.
To hijack the topic…
I thought that every animation studio farms inbetweens to sweatshops these days, including the ‘big ones’. And I don’t mean Japanese sweatshps but steaight to Korea, which - I’ve understood - is lot cheaper. Sometimes it feels like they even farm keyframes to Koreans (Aquarion, anyone?).
Back to the other topic. Until someone comes up with a more convincing explanation for 13 1, I’ll assume that a 24/26 of Haruhi was planned at some point. Then they got a deal on Kanon and quite udnerstandably axed Haruhi to half plus the extra episode zero. Money talks, that’s how the world goes ’round. This migth actually be a good thing as I agree there may not be enough content to Haruhi to fluff it up to 24 or 26. It’s a comedy, so episodic format that has no story arc should work well. Past experience suggests adding drama to a comedy makes it bomb anyway (Mahoromatic, Magikano, Tenshi na Konamaiki), sometimes big time.
Fact: we don’t need more Kanon. It has already be done, and it wasn’t even original or great the first time.
I beg to differ. When you say “first time”, are you referring to the first TV series or the original game? If you’re referring to the game, you must be living under a rock, because it has quite the following in Japan. The first TV series obviously didn’t meet expectations, but (if you ask me) that’s all the more reason to be excited about a remake. The original material may finally get the treatment it deserves.
Regardless of how much meme-driven popularity Haruhi is enjoying outside of Japan, it’s still a niche title. Kanon still enjoys widespread popularity seven years on… will Haruhi even be on any one’s mind seven years from now? Popularity and quality aren’t one in the same, obviously, but to suggest Kanon fans should bow to Haruhi’s inspired brilliance reeks of unrestrained fanboyism. It’s possible to be a fan of more than one thing, you know.
ZOMG Jal, you’re pandering to THE MAN just so you can get your sad-girl-in-snow fix? ;)
It’s all for Fred’s sake! Honest!
While I personally don’t give two shits about Kanon, this argument is really stupid.
And I STILL want to see a source (other than the Animesuki forums) for the information that they are going to cram all 7 novels into 14 episodes.
I seriously doubt that Haruhi could sustain its energy for 26 episodes. It would pall after a while and over stay its welcome.
However, Kyoto Animation has (via the Full Metal Panic franchise) shown itself fully capable of revisiting older works with great success. I’d not be surprised by more Haruhi a year or two down the road.
One other phenomenon to note: Honey and Clover and Genshiken are both returning after a short break. That could happen, too.
I want to know how they are going to cram all 7 novels into 14 episodes when the 7th novel hasn’t even been printed yet.
What I really want to know is why is everyone thinking Haruhi’s just comedy; it has a lot of drama too, which relys on the mystery/sci-fi aspect of the series instead of romance (like pretty much 90% of the anime this days)… plus, there’s enough source material in the novels to make it to 24/26 eps.
1. 13 episodes is the perfect length for most anime. As far as I was concerned, Shana was too long, not too short. Anything longer than 13 tends to ramble and get filler. 52 episodes is for kids’ shows, not works of art.
2. I think Suzumiya Haruhi may indeed be the coming of the animessiah. It’s just so much smarter than almost anything else, as well as being the best animation I’ve ever seen in a TV anime. But that doesn’t mean that it has to be more than 13 episodes.
3. But I’ve looked in 2channel and elsewhere and see no even semi-official statement of how many episodes there are going to be.
4. Suzumiya Haruhi is no more a niche title than Kanon was, or is. Its popularity has exploded in Japan, if only among animephiles — which were the audience for Kanon, too. On 2channel, the main thread is up to 52 iterations (i.e., over 51,000 posts), which brings it within striking distance of the by-far-most-popular anime of the previous season, Fate/Stay Night, which only has 62, despite a three-month head start. But that still doesn’t mean SH needs more than 13 episodes, at least in its first season.
4. ????? is called Saiunkoku Monogatari in English. The translation isn’t used anywhere I’ve seen, but a literal translation would be The Tale Of Multicolored-Clouds Country. Multicolored clouds as in sunrise or sunset.
Thank you hashihime, but I thought it meant country which gather ( collect, capture ) clouds.
“And I STILL want to see a source (other than the Animesuki forums) for the information that they are going to cram all 7 novels into 14 episodes.”
They’d be idiots to try (note: my total knowledge of this series is this post). History shows that, with long-running source material, the anime doesn’t usually try and cover the entire thing in the first series (either leaving room for a sequel or letting it die after 13/26 episodes).
…and usually, if they DO try to compress that dramatically, it ends up being crap (it pains me to point out that the original Oh My Goddess! OAV, as much as I loved it 10 years ago, is pretty lousy in retrospect).
KyoAni can very well release Haruhi season 2 to address season 1 being too short at 13 1 ep. It is no real issue and the dividend from doing that would serve them well anyway.
In some sense, Kanon Rev.2 is AIR season 2. There’s mounting expectations that KyoAni would take on another KEY production and make money by doing justice to it. KyoAni as it is evident is poised to deliver.
Haruhi is now at book 7. Book 8 is expected. Its popularity has exploded across Asia-Pacific (subsequently to N.A) and is now selling strong. (7th novel is printed btw.) Ep0 is actually a chapter from a later volume which partly explains the in-joke elements on KyoAni’s part.
Kanon’s popularity as a series is very far-reaching, since it reached mainstream audience. Before commenting on why Kanon should be re-made, I think looking at the source material and the 2001 Toei Kanon TV are a must, if just to get a sense of the kind of expectations KyoAni has on its mantle after AIR TV.
Let’s keep an open mind and see if KyoAni does deliver by the end of this year (and duke it out at Saimoe 2k6 of course)
Am I the only one who’s calling the remake of Kanon, Kanon RePure in her head?
And I’ll quietly hijack the topic and say that Kyoto Animation is a *rarity* in dishing animation work ONLY TO ANI-VILLAGE (if oyu see Animation-Do, that’s just their sister studio). I should know, I have carefully looked at all the credits for AIR and Haruhi (where do you think the ANN credits came from); that’s just how Kyoto Animation works.
Everything is produced in-house, from storyboards to composite, with the exception of sound dubbing since the studios are in Tokyo. Even the solid Bones has ‘outsourced’ entire eps to smaller (but local) companies, let alone the in-between animation and paint.
That is why they handle only one series at a time; and I imagine they have to schedule it very carefully and in advance, so that they can maintain the quality. I would much rather they keep Haruhi at 14 eps so that they can get a bit of a break and do Kanon properly; after all even if you talk about the fans I think there’s just more wotas who have got VERY high expectations for Kanon RePure. Imagine the damage it would do to their reputation if the highly-anticipated episodes of Kanon come out and people are going “yashigani”. Terrible.
It is good that they’re being cautious IMO, many studios have crumbled because they try to do too much at one time. Bones is one of the few examples of a big studio who has managed their projects well.
I think its complete stupidity to even think about geting all 7 novels into 14 ep… They should try 5 novels for the 14 episodes, then finish the series after the 10nth, novel is out, if 8-9 isnt the last one. This would leave alot of room, to finish after kannon, or when convenient. Fans are forever, at least I am.
IMO it would keep everyone happy, and is very simple.
PS: This is my secound fav anime, BECK being my all time fav. I dont care how long I have to wait, I dont want it butchered.